Donald trump. what is your take on him?

[bluebird]

On the subject of keeping your political discussions going without devolving into nastiness, I just wanted to say to you all that for a long time now I've really enjoyed reading brewery discussions here because you've been largely able to do it and keep it civil enough that it doesn't have to stop.

There's such an interesting world spread here that I don't get on other forums, and you can actually argue the relative merits of socialism without getting too out of hand (just a little sometimes, eh?).  It has been interesting reading about European events like Brexit with unique views from European members, as well as things like the US elections with opposing and varied views from both at home and abroad.

I don't think I've ever posted in any of these threads, but for a long time now I've appreciated what goes on here in The Brewery and it's time I said so.  I hope it can always stay that way.  If ever a thread starts to get out of hand, just remember that more than the people actively arguing are reading it, and I speak for all of us lurkers (self-appointed representative) when I say that we do appreciate it.

I completely agree with you and was thinking the same exact thing. I'm mostly a lurker too. I get a certain "philosophical" type of current event news, available no where else. Perhaps because people know each other in a different capacity other than just having a political viewpoint.

Its a pretty important post in my opinion.

I don't contribute because I'd probably loose control. Hats off to the people who can hang tough and debate.

 

[mattiasNYC]

Just to drive home the point that truth is dead and that some people are willfully ignorant, and that that's not without consequence (from CBS):

"The son of Lt.-Gen. Michael T. Flynn, Donald Trump’s pick to be national security adviser, Michael G. Flynn, resigned from the Trump transition team Tuesday, CBS News’ Major Garrett reported."

"The younger Flynn, who has been his father’s chief of staff at Flynn Intel Group, has attracted attention because of tweets about #Pizzagate, a fabricated story accusing Hillary Clinton leading a child sex trafficking ring at Comet Pizza in Washington, D.C. His tweet came after a a man named Edgar Welch showed up over the weekend at the pizzeria armed with an assault-style rifle so that he could investigate the story for himself. "

His tweet:

"Until #Pizzagate proven to be false, it'll remain a story. The left seems to forget #PodestaEmails and the many "coincidences" tied to it."

And previously:

"@AnnCoulter HAVE YOU SEEN! Rubio's coke house, gayish dance troupe, and foam parties - Wayne Madsen Report "



Political discourse in the US is just beyond anti-intellectualism at this point....

 

[pucho812]

resigned or was fired?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/06/us/politics/michael-flynn-son-trump.html?_r=0

The NY times says he was fired
ABC news says forced out
CBS says resigned

Hmmmmmmm.

 

[dmp]

Or denied he ever existed!
"Vice President-elect Mike Pence denied that Mr. Flynn had ever worked for the team, saying on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” that he had “no involvement in the transition whatsoever.”"

More details on the post-truth / fake new propaganda manipulations, orchestrated by the men behind the curtain:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/30/donald-trump-george-monbiot-misinformation?CMP=share_btn_fb

 

[Gold]

Mike Pence is much better at lying than Donald Trump. Trump is transparent in his lies. Pence says everything with that quiet earnest voice. Makes it all sound believable.

 

[mattiasNYC]

Gold,

If the metric of 'success at lying' is fooling someone into thinking that what you say is true, then I probably agree with you. But Trump to me seems to be the ultimate bullsh@#$r. His lies are probably successful in the sense that he accomplishes his goals using lies whenever convenient and even if people don't literally believe the lies they believe Trump.... if you know what I mean.

 

[Gold]

But Trump to me seems to be the ultimate bullsh@#$r.

Absolutely. Has been since the 80's. I give 50/50 odds he'll last the term. That Mike Pence is a crafty bastard, and Trump has no friends on the Hill.

 

[nielsk]

Direct on air quote from official Trump spokesperson Scottie Nell Hughes
"There are no such things as facts"

 

[mattiasNYC]

So the next president makes yet another untrue statement, someone calls him on it, and he goes on Twitter to soil the reputation of that person and organization as retaliation instead of conceding he was wrong.

The future president of the USA. Great choice.

And for those who don't think this matters, there's Pizzagate, and just today a person was arrested for having made death threats at one of the relatives of the victims of Sandy Hook. A Sandy Hook-denier as it turns out, fueled by the hoax/lie that the event never happened.

Truth is dead.

 

[pucho812]

truth has been dead for a long time. I don't buy it but there definitely is some odd things in relation to sandy hook including things like crisis actors. As I said I don't buy it but always interesting to hear the other side.

 

[dmp]

Smith and Wesson stock dropped 29% since the election.
Shouldn't a pro gun republican president be good for a gun company?  (sarcastic)

If I understand the logic of the conspiracy theories:
Obama wanted to confiscate guns -> false flag events -> sandy hook etc -> take away guns
When, in reality, Obama just wanted common sense gun legislation.
But in reality, the last 8 years have had record gun sales spurred by the conservative propaganda.

I think the conspiracy theory should be that we're all living in a simulation, that has glitches, like in the matrix. I find that much more entertaining.

 

[mattiasNYC]

truth has been dead for a long time.

Not really in the sense many are using the term. It's one thing to have presidents who knowingly mislead the public as a calculated risk, either for altruistic nationalistic reasons or for selfish reasons, and a completely different thing to get a president that simply doesn't care if things are true or not. A very very different situation.

Trump supporters could have written it all off with "Oh, it's just campaigning.... stuff happens during campaigns..." a statement which in and by itself is troublesome, but now the campaign is over and the need for a president elect to lie like Trump still does is just close to zero, especially over things like Carrier.

He can't help it. He simply doesn't care about the truth, at all. All he cares about is looking good and getting respect apparently.

I don't buy it but there definitely is some odd things in relation to sandy hook including things like crisis actors. As I said I don't buy it but always interesting to hear the other side.

well.....

 

[mattiasNYC]

Smith and Wesson stock dropped 29% since the election.
Shouldn't a pro gun republican president be good for a gun company?  (sarcastic)

If I understand the logic of the conspiracy theories:
Obama wanted to confiscate guns -> false flag events -> sandy hook etc -> take away guns
When, in reality, Obama just wanted common sense gun legislation.
But in reality, the last 8 years have had record gun sales spurred by the conservative propaganda.

Yep. But as with anything else these days the truth doesn't matter. "Obama is going to take away our guns" failing for 8 years straight apparently means nothing.

I think the conspiracy theory should be that we're all living in a simulation, that has glitches, like in the matrix. I find that much more entertaining.

Actually, that would never fly as a "conspiracy theory" because it's actually too close to scientific and philosophical truth. Since we're firmly anti-intellectual these days we can pretty much dismiss such a theory. I think Obama's Muslim terrorist-babies (now aged) conspired with Hillary's sex-trafficking people to perpetrate Sandy Hook, as well as hurricane Sandy. Sandra Bland... see the link yet?

 

[Andy Peters]

but there definitely is some odd things in relation to sandy hook including things like crisis actors.

Utter fucking horseshit.

As I said I don't buy it but always interesting to hear the other side.

There is no other side.

 

[Andy Peters]

Smith and Wesson stock dropped 29% since the election.
Shouldn't a pro gun republican president be good for a gun company?  (sarcastic)

The stock market thinks rationally, which is to say that it understands that gun buyers are irrational.

"Obama is gonna take our guns, so we need to stock up now before that happens!" Gun sales go up, thus the stock price for weapons manufacturers go up.

Clinton doesn't win, therefore the gun fans can't say, "Clinton's gonna take our guns, so we need to stock up before that happens!" Thus the market expects sales to drop, and the stock prices of the weapons manufacturers dump core.

 

[mattiasNYC]

Utter f**king horsesh*t.

There is no other side.

Teach the controversy! 

 

[dmp]

Conspiracy theories can be an entertaining hobby and freedom of speech & press and all that.
But I think people need to realize how they're being manipulated by the bullsh*t.

For the past 8 yrs, this nonsense has been used to distract people from the real news.
- Obama was a muslim
- Obama was not born in the USA
- Obama hates America and wanted to destroy it
- The clinton's rigged sh*t and killed people
- Real journalism is just telling lies
-  etc etc

I think the folks funding this and pulling the strings didn't know exactly where it would lead (cause yes, the fake news sites were funded with big $$$) but this propaganda got people tuned out from reality, distrusting the 'establishment', and oblivious to the real changes being done politically that were just enabling the rich to extract more and more money from the middle class. I think this played a big part in where we are now.  Enough people believed this nonsense to get Trump elected. 

 

[JohnRoberts]

Smith and Wesson stock dropped 29% since the election.
Shouldn't a pro gun republican president be good for a gun company?  (sarcastic)

That same sales pattern occurred during (Bill) Clinton administration. 

When politicians very publicly attack gun ownership, some people actually believe they will act.  Increasing back ground checks was #9 on Hillary's top ten list of campaign promises.

If I understand the logic of the conspiracy theories:
Obama wanted to confiscate guns -> false flag events -> sandy hook etc -> take away guns
When, in reality, Obama just wanted common sense gun legislation.
But in reality, the last 8 years have had record gun sales spurred by the conservative propaganda.

Both sides have their knee-jerk ideology.  Tim Kaine reflexively tweeted about gun violence after the OSU "knife" attack.  :

I think the conspiracy theory should be that we're all living in a simulation, that has glitches, like in the matrix. I find that much more entertaining.

Imagine the computer to run that matrix, no wonder there are glitches. They can't even make a mac or PC that doesn't glitch up.

JR

 

[Script]

...but this propaganda got people tuned out from reality, distrusting the 'establishment', and oblivious to the real changes being done politically...

Very good point.

Not my interest at all to defend a type like president-elect DJ Trample -- disgrace is far too innocent a word to descibe him -- but he seems to possesses a character trait that is helpful in successful negotiation: erratic unpredictability. While a portion of this is good for negotiations, it's definitely not good for gaining trust as a president.

 

[dmp]

Imagine the computer to run that matrix, no wonder there are glitches. They can't even make a mac or PC that doesn't glitch up.

It is interesting to read about the computing power & memory of the human brain. It's incredible. Memory for concepts, images, sounds. Self healing. Long lasting. self reproducing (with a body). Weighs about 3 lbs and is compact.
With all that humans have created, it is still by far the most incredible technology known.
Compare a supercomputer to your home PC  (Blue Gene, MIRA / Sequoia).  I don't think we even have the ability to imagine what a super brain could do.