ethics

[Kev]

Hi Jack,
... once again I find I'm in the same place as you.
If your DIY is any good then there is a chance this will happen.

If the Commercial Company can bring a product as good as you for a price that is cheaper than you can make then ...
Just buy it
and get on with the next DIY project.

As far as the auction goes ... you get that.

If in years to come Steff makes the definative modified G9 and it lands on ebay for $$$ top dollar $$$
... I may just buy it myself.
COS IT WILL BE A CLASSIC.


until then
my next DIY project is the best
my DIY PCBs are the best
my Aluminium boxes are the lightest and the best

My DIY is best ... not yours
:green: :green: smug mode


except for cj's T4B ... and Steff's EQ's ... and Igor's 2254
errr
and Jakob's channel strip thingy ... and anything from Joe.
... my DK mic pre is pretty cool too and it's build quality is as good as anything I could do at my best.
:green: :green:

don't worry about what other people are doing
It's your DIY
enjoy it
:thumb:

 

[Peter Simonsen]

Man..ohh..man I cant see what the fuzz is all about here...I mean Take a pretty good look in the mirror..!!! What is it that a lot of people are doing around here in the first place..!!!

Ripping off well respected companie´s and manufator´s of well know audio toys..People are cloning everything from Neve- to Manley, and anything in between.. People are "laughing" at EveAnna M..when ever she try to get people NOT to place any of Manley´s hard work out in public..

BUT..Hey...ohhh..no we´re "only" doing it for "ourself"..soo no harm will be done..we´re not making any money in doing so..are we..noo..way..!!!..B-S to my ears..I mean all the DIY..that you do..are they just standing in a coner somewhere..doing nothing....you´re just enjoying the pretty lights in the dark or what..?

And here comes the funny part..!!!...Whenever somebody tries to make money on something you, or we, or They as a group has done..THEN..NOOO way..that is not fair..!!!..That can not be done..

Common guy´s...take a good look in the mirror...this is getting pretty sick imho...

Kind regards

Peter

 

[gyraf]

Peter,

I'm not sure I agree with you at all.

The very important difference is that no one here is trying to make money off other people's designs.

We are actually trying quite hard to keep commercial interests out of DIY's way.

Jakob E.

 

[Peter Simonsen]

[quote author="gyraf"]Peter,

I'm not sure I agree with you at all.

The very important difference is that no one here is trying to make money off other people's designs.

We are actually trying quite hard to keep commercial interests out of DIY's way.

Jakob E.[/quote]

Jakob,

As I said..It all comes down to how you look at things..!!!. as I said I doubt that all the DIY "products" are standing...in a corner somewhere doing NOTHING..!!!.I bet you that people are using them to make money in studio´s around the world..;-)..or they are building them to be "re-sold"..!!!

Soo People are indeed making money on the DIY stuff...!!!

Kind regards

Peter

 

[gyraf]

You are right in the sense that we empower people to NOT spend money on too-expensive "classical" gear.

If that is commercialism, then yes, all this is a commercial operation.

But I think that would be stretching the meaning of the category a bit too much.

Jakob E.

 

[Peter Simonsen]

Jakob,

But I think that would be stretching the meaning of the category a bit too much

Look..Money is money...and loss of money is loss of money not matter how one try´s to turn the table..!!!..and the same is true for earning money..!!!

To me..ymmv...in regard to the topic at hand..I see absolutly no difference...!!! I mean if I desided to make a clone of say my GML stuff..and would earn money..on this by using it to record..then I earn money on something George worked pretty darm hard to design..and he would loose money..´caurse I didnt buy the stuff..same with all the other companies out there..

Now everybody has a different meaning about these matters..all I`m saying is..if you Clone...somebody elses work/design..well dont cry when somebody "clones", and/or make money on yours..

kind regards

Peter

 

[peterc]

Hi Peter

Now everybody has a different meaning about these matters..all I`m saying is..if you Clone...somebody elses work/design..well dont cry when somebody "clones", and/or make money on yours..

I'm sure many of us are making extra money out of this. But to most of us this is not our main job.

I think you are missing my main point. Will people start "hiding" their DIY projects because they are being exploited (knowingly or unknowingly as in the case of the buyers of the GSSL pcb's) as has happened on the Synth DIY site & according to Jack on the DIY pedal side of things?

That is my point & I'd like to protect this group against members withdrawing into their shells & not posting their ideas & projects.

IMHO, we should have posted messages to the buyers of the GSSL pcb's informing them of the original prices & availability. Accepting 3 or 4 times what they cost in the first place is not in the spirit of my DIY ethic.

Peter C

 

[Michael Krusch]

Peter S., if you fix your car by yourself you actually steal money from the garage guy. We can discuss this till we all agree to switch to communism. :grin:

 

[Kev]

[quote author="peterc"]Will people start "hiding" their DIY projects ....[/quote]

some people already do
and
they have been shy right from the start of group diy.
I was lucky enough to see some of the projects and will continue to not pass on the info they gave me in good faith BUT I do continue to try to talk them into sharing the project in a web page. That is my life's purpose .

there are some very smart people out there and if you hadn't already guessed it ... no, my diy is not, in fact, the best.

A handful of the true DIY Jedis choose to remain in the shadows.

 

[Peter Simonsen]

[quote author="Michael Krusch"]Peter S., if you fix your car by yourself you actually steal money from the garage guy. We can discuss this till we all agree to switch to communism. :grin:[/quote]

*GGGG**...nooooo...I paid for my car..*GGG*..I own it..

Sorry bout that ;-)

Kind regrads

Peter

 

[sismofyt]

I'll be completely honest. I haven't put any of my eq or comps up for grabs because I consider them unique, different certainly. No, I haven't re-invented the wheel (maybe the hubcap :wink: ), but I screwed around with this stuff for +10 years. The benefit of that labour is mine. And mine only. Okay, you may call me a selffish *******, that's just fine. :roll:

I don't expect to get anyones work for free either. :wink:

One day I may think about doing some production as well. Maybe I'll just give all my gear away. Or maybe I'll take my secrets with me in my grave. :green:

I dunno. And I don't care. :razz:

 

[sismofyt]

I try to DIY everything. I can't recall ever having called a plumber, electrician, whatever. Fukkit, if they don't get my money.

Don't have a car though :wink:

 

[Guest]

Peter,

In essense, you are correct, but you have taken your argument to the extreme. I may use a design from a GE tube manual from 50 years ago to make an amp. Am I "ripping off" someone else? You say yes, and I don't really hold out hope of convincing you otherwise, but I say no, I am not for these reasons:

First, this amp is no longer being made.

I can only buy existing models form EBAY or someone else.

The design id public domain.

In the case of most other DIY projects here, similar circumstances exist. For example, SSL compressors are not stand alone but part of a console and are modified for DIY.

Most designs for anything stand on the backs of something else, but that does not imply a ripoff by any means. I think the big difference comes with what is the intent behind the action. Am I going to directly copy someone else's work and manufacture it for proffit? Or am I going to use someone else's work as a guide to make something similar, but modified for my needs? Two completely different things there. A DIY clone is almost never an exact copy, even if it is close, it is usually in a differeft context.

I believe your black or white view leaves out the vast majority of the spectrum here. There are some clear cases of rip off, and some that are questionable. The discussion in this thread is aimed at sorting out what the boundries to the questionable catagory are. I don't think your infinity is the boundry, but it certainly includes the real one.

 

[Peter Simonsen]

Thomas,

I say...that you may have misunderstood my ways a bit or I was maybe not clear enough..see I dont care if you clone from

The "design" public domain.

something that is no longer being made.

I find Electronic circuit very often to be based on like you said..something from 50 years ago, But I think that you would agree that... people/companies who are trying to survive out there today..to make a living designing, and selling audio gear..maybe they have "tuned" the old circuit to their own "new designs"..to what make them special..have that special sound if you will... and these companies would like you NOT to Clone their products ???..I´d think they rather would like you to buy them dont you think so...

Circuits are like food...there may be a 100 ways to make "insert your fave high quality food here"...but Many o cook I know..would like to keep it their very special secret on just what makes it their "specialty"

Now..to get back on topic....

As I said...and as the original first post of mine was meant to mean..!!! :twisted:

If you clone other peopels work...dont cry if others do the same to you..you asked for it...Nemesis..is still strong..

As Sismofyt said... He didnt re-invented the wheel..nor did I or anybody else I know (incl me..I know sounds amazing right)..but I clearly understand, and respect that both Sismofyt, and others want to "protect" their own "hard" work..And no I absolutely do not think that my ways are Black & white. ymmv

Kind regards

Peter

 

[Scenaria]

actually there is a standalone SSL comp.. just as theres stanalone 1176's and pultecs and la2's

:razz:

http://www.solid-state-logic.com/outboard/products/xgseries/index.php

 

[Peter Simonsen]

[quote author="Scenaria"]actually there is a standalone SSL comp.. just as theres stanalone 1176's and pultecs and la2's

:razz:

http://www.solid-state-logic.com/outboard/products/xgseries/index.php[/quote]

ohh...shyyyyyy-sshhyyyy :grin:

now dont you go telling us things like that :razz:

Kind regards

Peter

 

[Gustav]

Thats the 2nd link ive seen to the SSL compressor on SSLs site in 2 days. They must be getting a lot of traffic from here by now :shock:

Gustav

 

[sismofyt]

I doubt that.

I mean, who wants to **** over a 9K, when we got _real_ gear right here to enjoy? :grin:

 

[rafafredd]

another one... :shock: :?

 

[rafafredd]

another one... :shock: :?

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=21774&item=3742524692&rd=1