Expansive thinking, God the universe and humanity

[desol]

More than a semi-lucid dream, I refer to the US Navy's official records on the tracking of multiple UAP's that by radar and witness testimony break the rules of classical physics. Given the quantity of sightings and reports of 'high strangeness' by credible observers, is it fair to say these UAP's might be carrying occupants who regularly exploit a science of higher dimensional travel? Might they themselves have access to higher states of consciousness?  After all, isn't it an artifact of being paired to a particular dimension, that brushing up against a superordinate reality would appear magical, dream-like?  The protozoa knows nothing of up or down, but maybe in protozoan dreams. Why must reality be no deeper or stranger than our monkey-minds can contemplate?  The UAP phenomenon ought to excite the average scientist, keep our child-like wonder alive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Nimitz_UFO_incident

Uh oh...it's Tom Delonge!

(Of course, i'm only kidding... )

 

[bluebird]

I've been listening to an amazing podcast on the fall of civilizations:

https://fallofcivilizationspodcast.com/

Perfect background for populating large circuit boards.

The Romans the Mayans the Vikings... there are very obvious recurring mistakes humanity makes and never seems to learn from. Wealth inequality, over farming, religion, war, climate change, disease, etc...

One of the last episodes is about the Polynesian people of Easter Island, who seemed to have figured out a very sustainable and peaceful way of life. They had no weapons and a farming technique that ebbed and flowed with the environment.  It was definitely the most successful of the civilizations studied. The downfall was attributed to Europeans bringing disease to the Island. There were more factors including violence and slavery also introduced by the Europeans. They had a very spiritual and ritualistic religion called Rapa Nui.

This has to make one wonder about the validity of the one God punitive religions and they're effectiveness as a behavior/moral directive for humans. Seems to me, the more gentle spirit based religions are more effective. Perhaps because they were based in harmony with the natural world and environment.

Perhaps if Christianity and Islam could be updated to connect a little better with nature we could actually get to a proper retirement of the species (exploding sun).

 

[DaveP]

Perhaps if Christianity and Islam could be updated to connect a little better with nature

The problem with these religions is that they have become control structures, with people in charge who intend to keep it that way.

The verse in Genesis where it says "Go forth and fill the Earth", has been converted to a ban on birth control so that we are bound to OVERFILL the Earth, this is a result of the control structure in the Catholic Church that was never there in Jesus's time.  When the Earth was empty it was a sensible instruction, but it presumed people would have enough sense to know what to do as it eventually became full, but that would mean cancelling the command, see the problem?  So better to keep the poor souls filling than cancel the command and disobey scripture and make a previous Pope look fallible.

Islam is locked into the middle ages in too many countries with punishments to match.

So yes, you are right, but the update would put many control freaks out of a job.

DaveP

 

[boji]

I've been listening to an amazing podcast on the fall of civilizations:

Thanks BB! It's now in my queue.

btw it's funny that the topic of UAP's is more touchy a subject than conversations on a prime mover.  ;D

 

[abbey road d enfer]

The verse in Genesis where it says "Go forth and fill the Earth",

I don't believe this sentence has ever existed other than in the mind of someone who thought it would help him gaining control on his contemporaries. "God " certainly did not need to say it, since "it" had already put reproduction urge in the man's loins.
That urge already existed in animals and before that in the vegetal reign. I don't think amoebia ever needed an injunction to start spreading.

 

[bluebird]

The purpose of starting this thread was not to disprove religion. We all know thats a rabbit hole that is better not traveled! I'm guilty of poking at it I guess but I have too many intellectually brilliant friends who are believers to actually argue it with any seriousness. Been there done that many times, with poor results to say the least. The only real conclusion I have come to realize is that I am lost and they are found. The scientific facts don't matter at all (pertaining to this thread topic) because as of now, they don't answer the big question.

So with the help of both believers and non believers I am here trying to find my way. This is the only place I know that I can get such a wide range of commentary from all around the world. Its so special. No one is trying to be converted here. Although we can't help trying sometimes, being a natural tendency, we try because we care about the community and deep down feel we can help ease the pain of our friends if only they would see things differently. Our way. Lol.

All the political, spiritual, and philosophical discourse here is ultimately an expression of love. Know that, and this little corner of the internet will survive and grow, dismiss it and we will continue to wither away.

 

[iomegaman]

I think there is a TON of evidence that religion actually exists...now whether or not it should might be a completely different topic!

JK...mostly...as in all things there is substance and abuse from all things humans have developed...

 

[DaveP]

Bluebird, you are asking all the right questions and you are right that no-one can either prove or disprove the existence of God.  If it was provable then there would be no need for faith at all.  You can liken it to a father saying to his kids to look left and right before crossing the road, he wants them to trust his words to avoid trouble and accidents.  This is just a simple analogy, it doesn't travel farther than that.

The bravest people I know are the ones who go through their entire life with just their faith to guide them.  Some of us (I think the ones who could not cut it otherwise) have had confirmation of God's existence in one form or another.  There were very few near-death experiences in the past for obvious reasons, but modern medicine has made them much more common today and the internet has gathered them up.  Many of them are told to go back because it is not their time yet.  Some are even told this by Jesus if they know him.  Others have had out of the body experiences after serious accidents and have seen themselves from above, these incidents have profound effects and are life changing.

Christians are called to be witnesses, not lawyers.  I had a spiritual experience just before I came back from working two years in the Congo, it was the 31st Dec 1976.  I became aware of my spirit for the first time as a separate entity, my mind was aware of this duality and was like What the ?**?  This came from outside of me and I had an instant understanding that God was real.

God does not make truth available only to those intellectually brilliant guys you spoke of, it is accessible to children and peasants alike, he also does not force it down anyone's throat, all you need to do is ask and mean it.  We were given free will to choose

So many people only trust their minds today, what science can prove etc.  God is looking for peoples hearts, which is a different game altogether.

You are the closest to what you seek than you have ever been.

Best
DaveP

 

[boji]

All the political, spiritual, and philosophical discourse here is ultimately an expression of love. Know that, and this little corner of the internet will survive and grow, dismiss it and we will continue to wither away.

It's true. At the core is a feeling that you bring something to the table to be synthesized by our other-selves. By serving the whole the hope is it will be greater than the sum of its parts.

How beautiful this life experience is, that as science keeps opening doors, new doors are always found behind them. Imagine a world where all was achievable, understood!  How boring would that be. I feel the love in the mystery. We all feel a need to know there's something as-yet unknown that is worth exploring, as it spurs us to get out of bed each morning. The children are given their playgrounds.

 

[desol]

There were very few near-death experiences in the past for obvious reasons, but modern medicine has made them much more common today and the internet has gathered them up.  Many of them are told to go back because it is not their time yet.  Some are even told this by Jesus if they know him.  Others have had out of the body experiences after serious accidents and have seen themselves from above, these incidents have profound effects and are life changing.

My NDE research after a long time, 'ended' with a single video done by an elderly neuropsychiarist that had been studying the phenomenon for a very long time. He's very well spoken, objective and highly responsible with his comments. He has worked with other like minded colleagues across the world in uncovering the pertinent data. They had all conducted formal research on hundreds of hospice patients world wide, in order to accumulate a wide array of data on the subject.

At the end of it all, it amounted to three things that were important(for me).

1. The NDE experiences were culturally influenced. ie: people in america saw a bright light, god or christ. People in Japan saw a dark river with cherry blossom trees(or something), people in other places experienced things based on their cultural influences. Culture had everything to do with the experience.
2. In his opinion...consciousness survives death.  .
3. The best thing one can do on their death bed is to release all attachment to things that they feel they're holding onto. Things, relatives, money, property, ideas, bad experiences, etc. The people that were able to detach themselves from everything they identified themselves with, had the easiest time passing. Those that held on to things...whatever it may be...had the most difficult time passing and the most difficult experience.

It's the probably the best, most responsible interview I've seen on the subject and feel that it's well worth a view. The interview is here for anyone interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78SkTuk8Zd4

Peace.

 

[Winston OBoogie]

... had already put reproduction urge in the man's loins.
That urge already existed in animals...

Depends who or what part of what you're reading. 
And to confuse the issue further, if going by the Juadic or Christian "revealed truth" in the Torah or Old Testament, then both contain two conflicting accounts. 

In the first chapters of Genesis, man and woman are created together, after all other animals and then told to go forth and multiply.
In the second account, man is created first (Adam), then animals, then woman (Eve) from man's rib.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Depends who or what part of what you're reading. 

Darwin.
For me, the testaments/torah/kuran may as well begin with: "Once upon a time...".
The bible has been force-fed on me, but it made me think, and now I'm a big skeptic, because some things are indeniably wrong in them and they're supposed to be perfect, so I rejected it all.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

1. The NDE experiences were culturally influenced. ie: people in america saw a bright light, god or christ. People in Japan saw a dark river with cherry blossom trees(or something), people in other places experienced things based on their cultural influences. Culture had everything to do with the experience.

Near-Death  is not death. It's just a dream, and as such it's influenced by life, fantasies, fears. There's so much talk about NDE that people expect to see what others have described. Bright light, why not, I don't need an NDE to see bright lights in my dreams...

2. In his opinion...consciousness survives death.  .

Define consciousness...

 

[DaveP]

Near-Death  is not death. It's just a dream,

You have proof then?

DaveP

 

[abbey road d enfer]

You have proof then?

If near-death was death, it would be called death.
By definition, a dream is a thing that happens in a state of unconsciousness. The numerous descriptions of NDE I read never made me doubt that it's a bi-univocal relation.
It's not proof, but very strong suspicion.
What happens after death is a mystery, but I'm inclined to think it's like before I was born, a total absence of conscience.
NDE is not a mystery for me. The brain knows it is in great danger, so it produces a vision that acts on the body in a way that helps healing or makes death less painful.

 

[desol]

Near-Death  is not death. It's just a dream, and as such it's influenced by life, fantasies, fears. There's so much talk about NDE that people expect to see what others have described. Bright light, why not, I don't need an NDE to see bright lights in my dreams...
Define consciousness...

That's a safe enough explanation. If it works for you it works for me. Cheers.

 

[scott2000]

Appears  to me that faith seems to be a  thread in a lot of this regardless......

Reminds me somewhat of Rush "Freewill"

 

[alexc]

From my perspective, what amazes me is the most , is how 'interactive' the wild creatures that I see in my locale  seem to be.

I mean, all these critters are out there making a living 24-7, as it were  ..  the birds, the earth worms, the possum and the bandicoots  et al.

When I go 'looking' , that's when they seem to do the most 'acting up' .. as if I were a camera or observer or so - right there  with all the 'quantum' issues of the 'dreamers dreams' and all that.

I have various windows from where I  look  for  the beasts and birds etc  ..  I'm certain they aren't aware if me directly -  and they do seem to do the 'note-worthy activities'  mostly  when I go looking and  'tap-tapping' on the window. 

Like really 'hamming it up' no joke.

Now I know they can't hear me tapping, but that's not what happens.  I tap, they go into overdrive mode. Crazy it is.

I mean, I know they don't get paid extra - at least not from me ....  none-the-less  they just seem to  'know'  when you are  are watching,  [ and quite honestly, a little bit before-hand    - a 'leading wave', as it were  ]  and save their 'best for last'  before taking off into the wilderness for another day.

They do all the super crazy stuff  ...  the dozens of 'welcome-swallows' flying acrobatics and call out to me right above my head , and the flock-and-a-half of multi-colored 'parakeets'  that moved in for the winter ...    as they do ...  l

It's just crazy out there (in the natural world) ... critters  - just seem to want jump out and do 'their thing' at you, whenever possible.

Seriously I had to make up special wire cages for my 'flue-s' in my house because I would get ' birds' ..  about a half dozen a day or more  ... tap-tapping at my unused fireplaces glass door - awaiting me to release them  into the house  and then back outdoors 

I'm convinced they do it 'for attention'  ...  you know, all the palava about 'flying around' inside till they get to the door and escape back to the wonderful light! You know, mostly for my benefit and a some 'hoots' on their part.  Hence the half a dozen a day ..  sparrows, starlings, swallow and one or two other kinds  ... 

...

Then it started with the 'wallabies'  and the 'quolls' and even some 'betong'    There's 'animal tracks' all  around my place [their place! ]

..

So the last month or so,  I've been 'wiring off' some small sections ...  my 'vege patch'  ...

The 'bandicoots' are crazy  'home-makers'    and the wallabies are worse.  They like to 'move in' to my potato patch and 'live,  eat'    [and poop] in spirals [ in-spirals actually] ...  in the middle of the  tiniest, most sad potato patch .. that is my last year's effort    ;D

Gotta hand it to them, I mean, if you can, 'why not' ?  I mean, they're always scooted by first light, these army of the night s.

...

And my old 'merc'  it seems, is a key part of the cycles of the 'blue wren'  families here ...  they just can't get enough of the bright work for their 'biz-ness'.  I have to clean it and cover it up for all these spring months, it's like a local attraction for every starry eyed couple with 2s to spare.

This year, I'm putting the old thing in my barn    All clean, polished, covered  ... ready for the 'big sleep'  ...  and only a decade or two past it's prime [ 1980 model 450sl]

The wrens are already voicing their displeasure at their fav. trysting place being phased out! The giant 'huntsman spiders' are just going to have to 'pound earth'  - they can't jump out at me on the highway and freak me - t- f - out  no longer.

The wrens now just  tap-tap-tap at my bed room window and day long, and the huntsmen spin-spin their cornices as always, never far away.

..

Apart from the huge  'angus' bulls [cattle]  and the ' tiger' snakes [bad news] that  can't seem to stay away from my place  [other stories altogether]  ..

..  most of my  wildlife encounters  are  'bird related'  ...  my big project for this summer is a 'scare-crow'  ..  old style.

It's something of a tradition in these agricultural regions .. 

Scare-crows and Lanterns 

 

[Tubetec]

There something interesting about the flora and fauna of Aus and NewZ, I rekon the built in 'fear' of humans we see in other places simply never existed as it wasnt required ,  you end up with ground dwelling raptors ,quite capable of opening your chest cavity with one swipe,  yet more curious of humans than afraid, that was always going to end up  on the table , now we have the accumulated knowledge to see clearly were interconected to nature and its a two way street , at the rate were going have we become little more that the architects of our own demise ?

Below is an animated map of the known world stemming out the Mediterainian basin ,

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=animated+map+of+european+civilisation&t=ffab&ia=videos&iax=videos&iai=UY9P0QSxlnI

 

[Winston OBoogie]

From my perspective, what amazes me is the most , is how 'interactive' the wild creatures that I see in my locale  seem to be...

Thanks for your post Alex, sounds wonderful