Gotta say , I find the Black Market now uninteresting and not exciting

[bruno2000]

A poll was effectively taken with the threads in which the new system was requested.  I agree on missing the ability to list multiple things in one place.  While not like a 'shop', the old thread style sort of was.  But it had lots of abuse; people deleting listings as soon as they got the funds for something, etc.  Maybe there's a way to do multiple listings under one banner for one fee?  Restore some of what was lost within the new system?

With all due respect, was there really lots of abuse?  I got burned only once, and that was certainly offset by all of my successful transactions.  I think that a listing in the Brewery " XXX ripped me off" was sufficient warning.  Let the buyer beware.  I liked the "old" Black Market.
Now I have $0.04 in this.
Best,
Bruno2000

 

[living sounds]

It seems very bureaucratic and unpractical to me. I just wanted to open a Thread, copy and paste a few item listings I prepared and see if someone will contact me. Now I'm forced to list everything seperately (which is a real pain with lot's of different op amps, for example), deal with some sort of auction system, pay for it, and somehow have to involve Paypal.

I liked it the way it was and it always worked out very well for me. Sometimes people who told me they would buy something stopped writing back, but I prefer dealing with that rather than going through all of the above.

 

[s2udio]

I have to agree with the sentiments expressed here, and IMHO, with all due respect for Ethan and his good intentions ...

It wasn't broken. It is now. A mistake has been made.

I am saddened, and hope that it can be put back the way that it was.

Maybe a poll could be taken?

Agree with that 100%

I am not against new members ,but the rise of the paint by numbers brigade and  GS type posts and  threads makes me  dissapointed.
Maybe time to stop posting here and just let the spoonfeeders raid what once was a valuable and educated resource .
My enthusiasm for the place has dulled somewhat of late because if i did post then i would probably be banned for attacking idiots,non of which listen to
Educated reason anyway !!

 

[canidoit]

Wow, so you missed the threads where it was requested?  They went on for awhile.  Its not cluttered if you learn how to look at it.  Skip the pic section on the landing page altogether.  Do a listing for 365 days for $1 is about making money?!  ....and you don't have to use PayPal...

Do you have to pay for placing a for sale ad now? Is there a free add listing here still for individual items or individuals selling items??

 

[gemini86]

Wow, so you missed the threads where it was requested?  They went on for awhile.  Its not cluttered if you learn how to look at it.  Skip the pic section on the landing page altogether.  Do a listing for 365 days for $1 is about making money?!  ....and you don't have to use PayPal...

Do you have to pay for placing a for sale ad now? Is there a free add listing here still for individual items or individuals selling items??

it's a dollar, so not like you're shelling out serious cash. Not sure what the function of that was again, Iit was mentioned but I've forgotten which thread it was in, since this topic seems to be leaching into everything in the brewery lately, like an oil spill.

 

[r2d2]

have to say :
with actual forum exchanges

dayly visit require time x 3 ... (probably many members don't have time available about)

.......unfortunately  not positive    :-\

peace!
r2d2

 

[ruairioflaherty]

The new black market sucks and I'm not going to use it. Why? I don't want to be forced to use Paypal, pay for a listing (I usually list stuff in several forums since it's mostly specialised gear), it looks cluttered, it's unnecessary complicated and seems to have been implemented for the sole purpose of making money. Fail.

This forum is such a great place with so many immensly knowledgable folks offering advice for free and I hope at least that part of it stays that way.

Wow. What a truly ungrateful way to make your point. Ethan worked incredibly hard to upgrade the forum, some of like the changes, others don't. We are having a discussion about it, awarding a 'fail' for Ethan's efforts is rude and like something I'd expect to read on Gearslutz. When you conduct yourself like this you are part of the problem and not the solution.

I could go on....

If we are going to criticize please let's make it constructive and be sensitive to our hosts here.

 

[living sounds]

Wow. What a truly ungrateful way to make your point. Ethan worked incredibly hard to upgrade the forum, some of like the changes, others don't. We are having a discussion about it, awarding a 'fail' for Ethan's efforts is rude and like something I'd expect to read on Gearslutz. When you conduct yourself like this you are part of the problem and not the solution.

I could go on....

If we are going to criticize please let's make it constructive and be sensitive to our hosts here.

Sorry if the tone came over as rude, but this just came at the wrong time and got me pretty annoyed. It seems part of a general trend of making things worse on the internet that's been going on for quite some time IMO, and you're totally at the mercy of the people running sites. Gearslutz is a good example, they recently changed the layout and now you cannot see the exact date and time of a post, instead it reads "about an hour ago" or "two days ago", this cannot be avoided by a custom setting. What's the point? Do we have to dumb everything down to Apple/Facebook level and then charge people extra for it?

I just don't see the need for this new Black Market approach, seems totally random to me.

Also, I said what I don't like about it specifically, how is that not constructive?

 

[MagnetoSound]

Let's just try and keep calm, eh? I know a lot of us have been having a few more bad days lately than in the past, and that's surely not going to change any time soon - the pressure is mounting out there, I know.

But that is no reason to take it out on anyone here - especially Ethan - and it is true that a part of the problem we are talking about is the growing trend of sniping, backbiting and general squabbling that a lot of threads have been subjected to lately.

To get back on topic, what I used to love about the Black Market was it's generally good nature. It used to feel like a real-life market place, with people hawking their wares, haggling, sometimes elbowing one another out of the way to get in first when they found something they liked, but also sometimes standing aside out of respect - above all, doing it with good grace and generally conducting themselves honourably. The excitement of looking there first thing in the morning was one of the things that would get me out of bed on my days off.


The few bad apples that we all know about - the ones who would cut and run with your money without sending any goods, or the timewaster buyers that would enter into a deal and then back out after a month - were relatively very few it seems, and perhaps it would have been better to have shamed them rather more harshly than to change the whole system to one than removes all vestige of the human interaction that we all enjoyed and benefited from. Some kind of induction process for newbies might have been warranted. Instead it seems we have thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

I don't know what I am leading up to ... it seems doubtful that things can revert to what they were before. I just want to say how sorry I am that we seem to have lost something so special and unique on the internet. This is more or less the only forum that I still hang at with any regularity, and the BM was one of the best things about it! Because my thing is mostly modding and tinkering and P2P, my interest is in the knowledge and (except in rare and special cases like the EQU47) picking up random stuff like meters or switches, rather than buying kits or PCBs. I really want this place to make it through the challenges that lie ahead with it's spirit intact and it's heart unbroken. It used to be fun in there, and now it isn't. That's a real shame.


OK, that's it. Over and out. I'm going for a walk now. Love to all.

 

[canidoit]

Wow, so you missed the threads where it was requested?  They went on for awhile.  Its not cluttered if you learn how to look at it.  Skip the pic section on the landing page altogether.  Do a listing for 365 days for $1 is about making money?!  ....and you don't have to use PayPal...

Do you have to pay for placing a for sale ad now? Is there a free add listing here still for individual items or individuals selling items??

it's a dollar, so not like you're shelling out serious cash. Not sure what the function of that was again, Iit was mentioned but I've forgotten which thread it was in, since this topic seems to be leaching into everything in the brewery lately, like an oil spill.

I guess it is up to the individual to list or not.

I can only speculate that there must be an increase in website hits and DIY designs sold here due to this increase in audience or GroupDIY awareness from other website such as gearslutz. In my opinion, I noticed an increase in mention of this website at gearslutz than what it use to, which may be a good thing for people who can make a profit from it, like the designers who sell designs here, the owner of the forum here and sellers of parts here.

Ethan, there must be a way of utilizing profits from banners and advertisements than charging for trading ads from the people here who do not sell with a commercial purpose.

I think charging fees in the Black Market makes this forum more of a commercial forum, which is fine if that is Ethans agenda?? I read somewhere that this forum was created because people were having issues from another forum who was trying to make profit from peoples posts on DIY builds?

I rarely place for sale ads here but I do feel the sentiment of some people regarding, why are there new charges? As for the leeches or paint by numbers mentality, I really can't complain cause I probably fall somewhere in that bracket because electronics is not my #1 passion or priority but I do try to pass on what I have learnt or gathered.

At the end of the day, it's not my forum, so who owns the home, makes the rules they say.

 

[Mbira]

what I used to love about the Black Market was it's generally good nature. It used to feel like a real-life market place, with people hawking their wares, haggling, sometimes elbowing one another out of the way to get in first when they found something they liked, but also sometimes standing aside out of respect - above all, doing it with good grace and generally conducting themselves honorably.

+1

 

[emrr]

Mzaar, I guess you haven't been here long enough to know that threads in the old BM and the Brewery disappear after some time.  And there never was uniform data retention in the BM, as many people replace the price with the word SOLD, or outright nuke the entire listing once they've been paid.    What you see one day is not necessarily what was there the day before, even if it appears so. 

I really doubt any of this is about Ethan having fun coding!  It was done at the request of several other threads similar to this one, polar opposite. 

I agree, if there's a way to build discussion in, then bring it back.  Maybe in the threads at Marketplace/BM Notifications, but not in the BM heading at the top.    Then you can look at that part, or not. 

Is there a way to do a multi-item listing?  I have no idea, if it's linked to the feedback system, maybe not easy.  We've had the suggestion of a FB system popping up for several years running, regular topic.  If someone has a better solution for a FB system, propose it rather than whine about it. 

 

[Ethan]

Discussion can be had in the new BM through the use of "add comment" at the bottom of each listing. Every user can comment and discuss the listing just as they would in a regular forum. One can also click "notify" to get emailed about new comments or changes to the listing.

Yes, EMRR is correct old BM threads were regularly deleted as they got older.

There's currently no way to easily do a multi-listing, but I'll put some thought into this, thanks.

 

[desol]

I'm just curious. What was the motivation behind moving to a 'bid' type market?

I can't see how there is any need for a bid-type system, the community just doesn't seem big enough.

 

[envelope]

+1 on old system.

There are still a couple of things that I would like to buy to help out the community, but If I have to place a bid on something, and then to potentially wait up to 1 year for a listing to expire, that negates my interest.

 

[Kingston]

Just now I'm looking for a cassette tape deck of certain qualities. Perhaps buying, perhaps not. Perhaps someone will sell one directly to me, perhaps they'll point me to a great source.

The old black market was perfect for this. New one, not really. Actually not at all.

I wouldn't use ebay for this either, because let's face it it gathers for the American market, and a tape deck (used as a great example here) is not something one would want shipped across continents.

I would again vote to bring back the old black market. There's really not enough turnover and sales here to justify any of the feedback fluff. It was called black market for a good reason. That was a clue enough for buyer beware for all transactions and discussions.

 

[Ethan]

...a 'bid' type market?

Sellers can choose to list it as an auction or as a flat one-time sale. If you want a flat sale price, just set the starting price the same as the buy-it-now price.
If you want to see how much you can get for an item, set the starting price low, and when other members make offers (bids), you can choose to end the auction early and accept the highest bid, or let the auction run it's course and the highest bidder wins when it expires.

...to potentially wait up to 1 year for a listing to expire, that negates my interest.

That's completely up to the seller as it always was--even with the old BM you never knew when the seller would decide to end the listing or to whom they were eventually going to sell the items. If they want to accept your bid and end a listing early, they can.

It's a much more flexible system than some critics are giving it credit for...

 

[emrr]

Yeah, a high percentage of the critiques here are based in ignorance.  Many of these things have all been explained, either in various threads here or in the Q&A in the BM. 

 

[gemini86]

I imagine a lot of people are stuck in Ebay mentality... (can't cancel bid early and settle outside of the auction, etc...) I for one hadn't thought of that as a option, to be honest.

Nice to have that cleared up. When you end the auction early, does the transaction still get documented in the feedback system?

 

[Ethan]

When you end the auction early, does the transaction still get documented in the feedback system?

Yes, as long as the seller does it within the system by clicking on "bids" then selecting "accept bid" to end it early. Just remember to leave feedback for each other  after the transaction is complete.