GssL 20th Anniversary edition

[Andado]

All that doesnt matter - you have a lot of problems, well cover the basic trouble shooting first - posting stacked "Now I found this, now this", is also generally confusing when we try to trouble shoot, but dont worry, well get there.

I marked the voltage points we need to measure, as well as the refernece to measure them to.

Start by verifying those.

Gustav

Here is the measurement

 

[Andado]

@Andado It's gonna be way easier for Gustav to troubleshoot when he has a list of all the voltages written down instead of video!

Sick idea with the 3d panel btw ! Good job

Thanks man. Yes 3d printers is a must have

 

[Gustav]

The neg 12 part I guess I’m wrong can’t measure from ground to that right?

You can measure all the points to the reference point I marked.

Here is the measurement

And you posted it here, unless you measured it some other way?

If you did get -12V relative to ref, its all fine.

Post a picture of the whole board, pls.

Gustav

 

[Andado]

You can measure all the points to the reference point I marked.



And you posted it here, unless you measured it some other way?

If you did get -12V relative to ref, its all fine.

Post a picture of the whole board, pls.

Gustav

Yes I did get -12 and yes from the reff point.
Here’s the board.
Really appreciate all the help Gustav

 

[Andado]

@Gustav when I probe the 0Ohm resistor we was supposed to change from 10k to 0 80% of the noise goes down. If that can maybe help you to track some the problem. Added a video of it.

 

[Gustav]

Yes I did get -12 and yes from the reff point.
Here’s the board.
Really appreciate all the help Gustav

Alright, good to hear the voltages are there.

I took a look at the picture. Of course, trouble shooting this is new to me as well, and with time, we gain some experience and have a faster eye. Most important thing is just to be patient and methodical, and any poking around you do while we follow basic trouble shooting steps, youll probably learn something from it as well.

1. The AGND.

It runs to the node through a jumper, and also to a pad, in case you want to isolate it. You ran it to both, and they meet on the case.

I would cut he jumper on AGND, so you dont loop it, but...

That is not the cause of the greater problem here.

2. Release ribbon cable

Looking further, please recheck orientation of the ribbon cable set-up for release. You can try just unplugging it and see what happens, since its not crucial to make the rest work, and may clear up your problem.

It sort of looks to me like you may have reversed one end of the connector when making the cable.

Gustav

 

[Andado]

Alright, good to hear the voltages are there.

I took a look at the picture. Of course, trouble shooting this is new to me as well, and with time, we gain some experience and have a faster eye. Most important thing is just to be patient and methodical, and any poking around you do while we follow basic trouble shooting steps, youll probably learn something from it as well.

1. The AGND.

It runs to the node through a jumper, and also to a pad, in case you want to isolate it. You ran it to both, and they meet on the case.

I would cut he jumper on AGND, so you dont loop it, but...

That is not the cause of the greater problem here.

2. Release ribbon cable

Looking further, please recheck orientation of the ribbon cable set-up for release. You can try just unplugging it and see what happens, since its not crucial to make the rest work, and may clear up your problem.

It sort of looks to me like you may have reversed one end of the connector when making the cable.

Gustav

Okey I understand now about the AGND, didn’t think about that just thought: oh more gnd to hook up
Release ribbon cable: didn’t think it made a difference since the red marking is at same spot on every connector.
Tomorrow I will cut the AGND bridge and take a look at the ribbon cable.

Patient: not my middle namne but okey I get it! I want this to be perfect so I will take a breath sometimes and a Coffey and snus (Swedish tobacco) I update here after I checked those first steps!
Thanks Gustav

 

[Andado]

And @Gustav I saw first now that you don’t like videos. Haha sorry for that. Was so up in this so my brain didn’t register that post from you.

 

[Andado]

Alright, good to hear the voltages are there.

I took a look at the picture. Of course, trouble shooting this is new to me as well, and with time, we gain some experience and have a faster eye. Most important thing is just to be patient and methodical, and any poking around you do while we follow basic trouble shooting steps, youll probably learn something from it as well.

1. The AGND.

It runs to the node through a jumper, and also to a pad, in case you want to isolate it. You ran it to both, and they meet on the case.

I would cut he jumper on AGND, so you dont loop it, but...

That is not the cause of the greater problem here.

2. Release ribbon cable

Looking further, please recheck orientation of the ribbon cable set-up for release. You can try just unplugging it and see what happens, since its not crucial to make the rest work, and may clear up your problem.

It sort of looks to me like you may have reversed one end of the connector when making the cable.

Gustav

So tonight I did:
1: Cut the AGND bridge from the nodes. (Didn't make much difference)
2: Re did ribbon cables (thinking of buying already done just for peace of mind)
3: Seems to working: Attack, Release, Gain, Blend, ScHpf
4: Ratio seems backward if that's even possible.
5: Threshold is a mess.. When I measure the middle pin on the pot and turn (compress more) it goes from +10v to +9.5v only!
That pot is a mess I think if I just pull slightly on those cables it dies and then come to life again....
Have 2 new Omegs that I was planing to use but I messed up and didn't think about the hole in frontplate so those Omegs are to big.
Anyway I tried those still just to rule out the cheap pots but whit omegs nothing work... .middle pins goes from -12 to -6 but no compression.
BUT if I take the same Omeg to GAIN it works just fine.
6: Still noise sometimes more sometimes less..

Is it normal when hardware is powered on and if you just touch a resistor that it will make hum noise? I have 1 spot that does that. Se attached pic.

 

[Gustav]

So tonight I did:
1: Cut the AGND bridge from the nodes. (Didn't make much difference)
2: Re did ribbon cables (thinking of buying already done just for peace of mind)

Can you verify wether it was reversed or not? Looking by the picture, the ribbon cable was done wrong, so lines crossed.

Your statement makes it hard to know if did a new one, just because I mentioned it, or if you can verify the error. We want to know if we have known errors corrected.

5: Threshold is a mess.. When I measure the middle pin on the pot and turn (compress more) it goes from +10v to +9.5v only!

Can you measure pin 1 and 3 on the threshold connector on the board, and also on the terminals of the pot when connected aftewards.

Do the same on your gain.

4: Ratio seems backward if that's even possible.

This is a common misconception to come up in the original GssL thread. The ratio is set up to move the reference when adjusting the ratio, so just because you see more compression at lower ratios, doesnt mean its actually a higher ratio.

Of course, it could be, and I will double check on the test unit at some point, but for now, its low in the hierachy of potential problems.

Gustav

 

[Andado]

Can you verify wether it was reversed or not? Looking by the picture, the ribbon cable was done wrong, so lines crossed.

Your statement makes it hard to know if did a new one, just because I mentioned it, or if you can verify the error. We want to know if we have known errors corrected.



Can you measure pin 1 and 3 on the threshold connector on the board, and also on the terminals of the pot when connected aftewards.

Do the same on your gain.



This is a common misconception to come up in the original GssL thread. The ratio is set up to move the reference when adjusting the ratio, so just because you see more compression at lower ratios, doesnt mean its actually a higher ratio.

Of course, it could be, and I will double check on the test unit at some point, but for now, its low in the hierachy of potential problems.

Gustav

Measuring Threshold
On board:
Pin:1 +11.28
Pin:3 -12.01
On pot:
pin1: +9.91
Pin3: -12.05

Measuring Gain
On board:
Pin1: -12.07
Pin3: +11.78
On pot:
Pin1: -12.07
Pin3: +11.79

Release ribbon cable was reversed. I found a pic on your Instagram and had it as reference when checked all ribbon cables.

 

[Gustav]

Pls check resistance between the ground

Measuring Threshold
On board:
Pin:1 +11.28
Pin:3 -12.01
On pot:
pin1: +9.91
Pin3: -12.05

Measuring Gain
On board:
Pin1: -12.07
Pin3: +11.78
On pot:
Pin1: -12.07
Pin3: +11.79

Release ribbon cable was reversed. I found a pic on your Instagram and had it as reference when checked all ribbon cables.

Great, thanks.

Ill check the design files to see if something went wrong from the revision I did to this one before asking for more stuff - it sounds like something is misplaced or shorting out to contaminate the ground, but not something that is drawing so much current we have magic smoke or low voltages.

The release reversed couldve been a culprit, but I dont see anything else obvious on your build. I also took an extra look on your in- and output wiring, which seems correct.

I would ask for a picture of the board, but shorts are unlikely, Think I spaced it out good.

Can you measure resistance from the voltage points to ref?

Gustav

 

[Andado]

Pls check resistance between the ground


Great, thanks.

Ill check the design files to see if something went wrong from the revision I did to this one before asking for more stuff - it sounds like something is misplaced or shorting out to contaminate the ground, but not something that is drawing so much current we have magic smoke or low voltages.

The release reversed couldve been a culprit, but I dont see anything else obvious on your build. I also took an extra look on your in- and output wiring, which seems correct.

I would ask for a picture of the board, but shorts are unlikely, Think I spaced it out good.

Can you measure resistance from the voltage points to ref?

Gustav

Godmorning.
Ok hope doing this right
Multimeter at ohm reading 20K

Measure resistance to voltage point.
POS 12 = 7.12
NEG 12 = 5.69
POS 15 = 12.96
NEG 15 = 6.89
POS 12 (left to REF point) = 13.05

Measuring resistance between grounds
Multimeter at Ohm reading 200 (beeps when contact)
00.4-00.5 on every ground point

 

[Andado]

Pls check resistance between the ground


Great, thanks.

Ill check the design files to see if something went wrong from the revision I did to this one before asking for more stuff - it sounds like something is misplaced or shorting out to contaminate the ground, but not something that is drawing so much current we have magic smoke or low voltages.

The release reversed couldve been a culprit, but I dont see anything else obvious on your build. I also took an extra look on your in- and output wiring, which seems correct.

I would ask for a picture of the board, but shorts are unlikely, Think I spaced it out good.

Can you measure resistance from the voltage points to ref?

Gustav

So when I take a known working pot to threshold I get -6.6v on pin 1... and -11.78 on pin 3.
I guess pin 1 should show +12 ish?

And the big hum is gone to. Went over some solder spot don't know if they where bad but I must try....

 

[Gustav]

So when I take a known working pot to threshold I get -6.6v on pin 1... and -11.78 on pin 3.
I guess pin 1 should show +12 ish?

This does not correspond to what you reported. Just thought you had a measuring error on pin 1 on pot, being "close enough". Sounds like it fluctuates - but its stable on the pin without the molex connected, so that limits the problem area of that specific problem to the connector, the cable, and the pot

Can you show a picture of the pot with connector? Is the sequence correct? Does the measurement on pin 1, change as you turn the pot?


Measuring Threshold
On board:
Pin:1 +11.28
Pin:3 -12.01
On pot:
pin1: +9.91
Pin3: -12.05

Measuring Gain
On board:
Pin1: -12.07
Pin3: +11.78
On pot:
Pin1: -12.07
Pin3: +11.79

And the big hum is gone to. Went over some solder spot don't know if they where bad but I must try....

Could be - show a picture of the bottom of the board, pls.

Also, recheck resistance to -15, unless you did that before resoldering.

Gustav

 

[Andado]

This does not correspond to what you reported. Just thought you had a measuring error on pin 1 on pot, being "close enough". Sounds like it fluctuates - but its stable on the pin without the molex connected, so that limits the problem area of that specific problem to the connector, the cable, and the pot

Can you show a picture of the pot with connector?


Measuring Threshold
On board:
Pin:1 +11.28
Pin:3 -12.01
On pot:
pin1: +9.91
Pin3: -12.05

Measuring Gain
On board:
Pin1: -12.07
Pin3: +11.78
On pot:
Pin1: -12.07
Pin3: +11.79



Could be - show a picture of the bottom of the board, pls.

Also, recheck resistance to -15, unless you did that before resoldering.

Gustav

Resistance NEG 15 still 6.89.

The "bad" pot shows + on pin 1 but 2 brand new Omegs shows - im so confused.
Have 2 Alphas from Amazon on the way to..
Okej will tear everything apart again and the a pic (my wife hates me right now)

 

[Andado]

This does not correspond to what you reported. Just thought you had a measuring error on pin 1 on pot, being "close enough". Sounds like it fluctuates - but its stable on the pin without the molex connected, so that limits the problem area of that specific problem to the connector, the cable, and the pot

Can you show a picture of the pot with connector? Is the sequence correct? Does the measurement on pin 1, change as you turn the pot?


Measuring Threshold
On board:
Pin:1 +11.28
Pin:3 -12.01
On pot:
pin1: +9.91
Pin3: -12.05

Measuring Gain
On board:
Pin1: -12.07
Pin3: +11.78
On pot:
Pin1: -12.07
Pin3: +11.79



Could be - show a picture of the bottom of the board, pls.

Also, recheck resistance to -15, unless you did that before resoldering.

Gustav

That light gray on the board is flux i think. Tried to take it of whit desstil water and dish soap and isopropanol but it won’t go away…. Non sticky though but going over it again now whit isopropanol and a brush. (Those straws är from my brush and non conductive!)
Update: no more hum or noise!
Just that darn threshold..
Threshold update: It works whit the Omegs but on full compression it only compress about 3db whit ratio at full 10:1
and when I press bypass my headphones are about to explode. In Ableton it’s showing ok input and output gain..

The 1.4Mohm resistor, can that one be an issue? I used 1.2Mohm and a 200k resistor in series to achieve that. but when measure it now whit my multimeter i get around 721k.

Feel like I have to push so much signal power in to the compressor to even be able to compress the audio.

 

[inf0]

That light gray on the board is flux i think. Tried to take it of whit desstil water and dish soap and isopropanol but it won’t go away…. Non sticky though but going over it again now whit isopropanol and a brush. (Those straws är from my brush and non conductive!)
Update: no more hum or noise!
Just that darn threshold..
Threshold update: It works whit the Omegs but on full compression it only compress about 3db whit ratio at full 10:1
and when I press bypass my headphones are about to explode. In Ableton it’s showing ok input and output gain..

The 1.4Mohm resistor, can that one be an issue? I used 1.2Mohm and a 200k resistor in series to achieve that. but when measure it now whit my multimeter o get around 750k.

Did you figure out what was the hum/noise issue?

 

[Andado]

Did you figure out what was the hum/noise issue?

I took away the bad pot and cleaned the backside of the board some more. Smells like a liquor store here now
AND I switched out my old Steinberg sound card,,, so can't say exact what did the difference.

 

[Gustav]

1. Your soldering can be interpreted in two ways.

Either, you started out really descent, and got impatient, or

You started out a little rough, then got better.

There is a clear difference across the board, and a lot of suspect cold soldering joints, but either you need to just be patient, or keep going with what you learned

I would reflow them. Use a little tin on your tip to get it flowing, and make sure you are heating both the pad and the component terminal.

2. The threshold needs adjustment on a resistor for the 10K pot, relative to using a 50K in the standard GssL. I may have forgotten I just did that on the prototype, and didn't correct it in the file. I cant get to the computer I have the file on now, but whats the voltage on pin 2 fully ccw and fully cw?

Gustav