How to add thick grease to an Encoder Knob for better "feel"

[Phrazemaster]

Hi everyone, it's been ages since I've posted here; how are you all?

I'm designing a fader unit and I'm going to use an optical rotary encoder to access menu items (it's a fancy fader). However, I'm looking for an upgraded encoder knob "feel". I ran across one of @PRR's old posts (I don't think he's here anymore

Anyway, he talked about adding grease, thick grease, to give a more "premium" feel to an encoder rotation.

I am trying to figure out how to do this without actually opening the optical rotary encoder. I've thought of just adding a metal washer and putting the grease in between the bottom of the encoder knob and the top of the fader panel, but I'm pretty sure centrifugal force will push out the grease over time making a big mess.

Is there any simple or elegant way to do this right? I have tried to think of adding "channel" or grooves in the washer to keep the grease in, but this too seems doomed to failure...

See my lame pix attempts - the grease won't stay in there for sure.

Thanks everyone; I love this forum.

Mike

 

[Phrazemaster]

PS also, if there's some basic premade part I can use here, please share. I don't think a bearing would work...Or if there's a certain kind of grease that would work well. It would have to be fairly thick though...

Thanks again creative minds

 

[Rusan]

In place of a washer, how about a thin O-ring smeared with a dab of mineral oil or grease to lubricate it? Just a thought.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I would advise caution about putting grease inside an electrical control.

JR

 

[OneRoomStudio]

Another option is a felt washer. I’ve used them under knobs before to make a loose pot feel tighter.

 

[GeorgeToledo]

It sounds like you’re thinking of white lithium grease. I agree with John though!

 

[Phrazemaster]

I would advise caution about putting grease inside an electrical control.

JR

Would not be going inside the rotary encoder at all. Nothing inside an electrical control.

The diagram you saw was my own 3D mock-up of the situation, my own encoder knob and a washer.

The encoder would never be opened and it’s shaft would go through the washer and into the encoder knob,

Grease would never get into anything electrical.

Thx JR and George, and thx everyone.

I’m looking to incorporate the grease to provide a lovely “feel” that a felt washer won’t give. It will be a very thick grease. I’m just concerned it will slowly leak out of the space between the encoder knob and the washer.

If there’s a way to contain it somehow that would be amazing . I can design and CNC a part.

 

[thelivingroom]

Hi everyone, it's been ages since I've posted here; how are you all?

I'm designing a fader unit and I'm going to use an optical rotary encoder to access menu items (it's a fancy fader). However, I'm looking for an upgraded encoder knob "feel". I ran across one of @PRR's old posts (I don't think he's here anymore

Anyway, he talked about adding grease, thick grease, to give a more "premium" feel to an encoder rotation.

I am trying to figure out how to do this without actually opening the optical rotary encoder. I've thought of just adding a metal washer and putting the grease in between the bottom of the encoder knob and the top of the fader panel, but I'm pretty sure centrifugal force will push out the grease over time making a big mess.

Is there any simple or elegant way to do this right? I have tried to think of adding "channel" or grooves in the washer to keep the grease in, but this too seems doomed to failure...

See my lame pix attempts - the grease won't stay in there for sure.

Thanks everyone; I love this forum.

Mike


View attachment 140389View attachment 140390

Lately I’ve been adding O-rings on the shaft, between the knob and bushing, to create some resistance and improve the feel of some pots. Seems to be getting harder and harder to find metal shaft C-P pots that feel good these days, so it’s the best I’ve come up with to polish the plastic shaft turds.

 

[Phrazemaster]

Here's another couple photos for more clarity.




The encoder is the red cylinder.

 

[JohnRoberts]

For a historical anecdote back in the day, Tapco mixers (a pre "Mackie", Greg Mackie mixer ) put thick grease inside (?) controls to improve the "feel". These were notorious for all but locking up in cold weather, becoming unreasonably hard to turn.

JR

 

[Phrazemaster]

For a historical anecdote back in the day, Tapco mixers (a pre "Mackie", Greg Mackie mixer ) put thick grease inside (?) controls to improve the "feel". These were notorious for all but locking up in cold weather, becoming unreasonably hard to turn.

JR

Yeah wow! I love your stories man!

That's a hard no; there will be no grease going INSIDE any controls!

Now I'm thinking of somehow just incorporating a small bearing into this, and packing it with a thicker grease to create the feel. The bearing would also be outside the control of course, but space is very tight for it. I'll post back with what I come up with. I'm determined to crack this!!

Thanks everyone.

Mike

 

[Phrazemaster]

Well I'm leaning towards using a small bearing, opening it, and repacking it with a heavy grease. This could all go sideways very fast. It also requires some custom parts and some precision.




The blue part doubles as the thread for the encoder - it will be threaded for a 3/8-32 screw. Tightening it secures the encoder to the panel. The bearing will sit inside this blue part, and be secured by a grub screw or two. A 1.5mm stop pin will secure the inner raceway of the bearing to the encoder. Wish I had precision like Grayhill switch stop pins, but I'm hoping it won't matter as much.

Yep it's over-engineered. I know simpler's better. But I'm thinking about this.

Thanks everyone,

Mike

 

[GeorgeToledo]

Wah wah pedals have traditionally used the aforementioned white lithium grease.

 

[k brown]

I wouldn't throw out the felt washer idea without trying it.

Works very nicely on a lot of vintage Sony gear.

Not as creamy a feel as a silicone-greased pot shaft, but a vast improvement on 'loosey-goosey' encoders.

 

[Phrazemaster]

I wouldn't throw out the felt washer idea without trying it.

Works very nicely on a lot of vintage Sony gear.

Not as creamy a feel as a silicone-greased pot shaft, but a vast improvement on 'loosey-goosey' encoders.

I appreciate that. I am going for top shelf premium feel however.

 

[scott2000]

For a historical anecdote back in the day, Tapco mixers (a pre "Mackie", Greg Mackie mixer ) put thick grease inside (?) controls to improve the "feel". These were notorious for all but locking up in cold weather, becoming unreasonably hard to turn.

JR

For sure....I cleaned them out and used kilopoise grease that was recommended... That stuff is amazing....
https://groupdiy.com/threads/grease-for-potentiometers.66870/#post-849055

 

[Phrazemaster]

Thank you Scott; super info!

So, many hours later, I've redone the design again. I wasn't happy with that stop pin, and I couldn't figure out how to make the stop pin hole (in both parts) cleanly without ruining parts, or my fingers! Too fiddly, dangerous, liable to be loose, and wouldn't be easily repeatable with normal DIY equipment for multiple runs.

In the first design, the pot was affixed to the smaller bearing with that stop pin, and the bearing was affixed to the blue bearing mount/encoder nut with grub screws.

So I got to thinking, HOW am I gonna redo this? Then I realized, I could affix the bearing to the outer knob instead of to the shaft.

Here's an updated design.




This newer design is much easier - and the bearing is larger too, which should provide a smoother feel, with more grease inside too. Grub screws affix the bearing to the bearing mount/encoder nut, and also to the large knob. I couldn't figure out how I was going to tighten the bearing mount/encoder nut (blue part) once the bearing was affixed with the grub screws (because it SPINS!), so then I though maybe use pin holes like an angle grinder nut. They sell face pin pliers to do the job in various pin sizes; the holes here are 3mm.

Although it's taken several hours of design work, this solves every problem I was anticipating. Of course the real world is another story, and when I get the parts made, I'll try to remember to report back the experience I have with it all. This is in hopes of creating a killer-diller-smooth-premium-super-fantastico-feeling encoder knob. Oh, and I'm using a Grayhill optical rotary encoder, only the best.

Thank you for reading and for the input. Hope someone is inspired with this, or can even improve upon the design.

Mike

 

[Phrazemaster]

For sure....I cleaned them out and used kilopoise grease that was recommended... That stuff is amazing....
https://groupdiy.com/threads/grease-for-potentiometers.66870/#post-849055

It appears the Kilopoise grease is discontinued, from what I found.

Here's an alternative - can't comment on how good it is, as I haven't tried it:

https://support.newgatesimms.com/finding-an-alternative-for-rocol-kilopoise-0868-damping-grease/

EDIT: they also have a trial pack of 6 different damping grease strengths; absolutely perfect to figure this out.

EDIT2: just after I bought the sample pack I found another kit you have to apply for at Fuchs.com website. Also other companies have trial kits too; worth checking out of you’re interested. Maybe even some might be free.

 

[Newmarket]

Thanks for the update.

 

[gepicaster]

Hi everyone, it's been ages since I've posted here; how are you all?

I'm designing a fader unit and I'm going to use an optical rotary encoder to access menu items (it's a fancy fader). However, I'm looking for an upgraded encoder knob "feel". I ran across one of @PRR's old posts (I don't think he's here anymore

Anyway, he talked about adding grease, thick grease, to give a more "premium" feel to an encoder rotation.

I am trying to figure out how to do this without actually opening the optical rotary encoder. I've thought of just adding a metal washer and putting the grease in between the bottom of the encoder knob and the top of the fader panel, but I'm pretty sure centrifugal force will push out the grease over time making a big mess.

Is there any simple or elegant way to do this right? I have tried to think of adding "channel" or grooves in the washer to keep the grease in, but this too seems doomed to failure...

See my lame pix attempts - the grease won't stay in there for sure.

Thanks everyone; I love this forum.

Mike


View attachment 140389View attachment 140390

What kind of grease is this now? - I would use silicone grease - it's tough - also often used for turntable lifts; stays in place.