impeachment stupidity

[Bo Deadly]

I don't understand why people are pushing for impeaching Rump (the T is silent). It only INCREASES his chances of being re-elected. The senate will have a little "trial" and then declare him "not guilty" and some people will think "well I thought he was a bad guy but apparently he's been wrongly accused".

What also doesn't make sense is when people say he has to be impeached because he could do a lot of bad things over the next 15 months. Wha?! News flash: he will still be in power that whole time anyway. There is 0 (zero) chance Senate republicans will vote to remove him.

 

[pucho812]

What would they impeach him on exactly?

 

[Ricardus]

So far none of the american presidents who have been impeached have been removed by the senate, so I call BS.

There is absolutely NO WAY to predict or control all of the variables regarding "what would happen if."

It needs to happen because it's the right thing to do.

 

[living sounds]

Because there is ample reason to assume has commited a long list of impeachable offenses. The remedy the Constitution calls for in this case is the Impeachment process.

Immediate criminal prosecution would be the other normal way of dealing with his offenses, but legal shenanigans of his own administration (justice department memo  ) are preventing it. And a currently peddled right-wing doctrine goes one step further and even says, that a president cannot commit a crime whatsoever. Which is certainly not what the framers had in mind and not what any reasonable modern democracy would accept. But the US justice system has been captured by a radical minority.

As for impeachment, the other advantage would be more authority for Congress to investigate, in accordance with precedent. They would have standing to finally get the tax returns and a few other things. The administration is not playing by the rules, so this might be a way for Congress to finally perform oversight as granted to it by the Constitution.

 

[Tubetec]

Looks like Borris Johnson could be facing  something similar over his shutting down of Parliment , which has now been ruled illegal by the UK's supreme court.He's broke the law I dont understand why the constabulary arent banging down the door of Number 10 at this stage . Bojo looks like he's now just one false step away from the ignominious title  'Britains shortest serving P.M. ever'
Rocky road ,politics these days  ;D

 

[living sounds]

I dont understand why the constabulary arent banging down the door of Number 10 at this stage.

Maybe because Johnson is currently in New York. 

The UK is lucky to still have a functioning highest court, that, unlike the US Supreme Court, has not been captured by narrow political interests.

 

[Tubetec]

Politically appointed Judiciary to the Supreme Court is also a feature of the Irish political landscape ,it amounts to bias for or against one of the two leading political parties in the country ,especially on dissputed points of law , which can  end up taking years to go upto the European Court of Justice and get sorted out afterwards , meanwhile the public interests arent served .

Who knows maybe the Sargent at Arms might be waiting to talk to Borris  when he touches down on home soil .

 

[Bo Deadly]

Looks like Borris Johnson could be facing  something similar over his shutting down of Parliment , which has now been ruled illegal by the UK's supreme court.

This is all connected. There is a nationalist / authoritarian movement underway right now. This is another reason why Rump should not be impeached as it would just escalate the conflict. These political movements are like a boulder rolling down a hill. You can't stop it but if you hit it at just the right moment you can deflect it in a more favorable direction. A vote against Rump and, more important, against the Republicans that are effectively colluding with him might be enough to change the direction of the nationalist movement and not just in the US. There needs to be resounding clear vote to reject obstructionist / disillusional right wing ideology so that sane people can get on with the hard work of dealing with the problems of regular people like health care costs and climate change.

 

[pucho812]

Because there is ample reason to assume has commited a long list of impeachable offenses.

and what would they be? See this is where I am wondering. They talk of impeachment because he has done so many things right? Well, name one? Give me one thing he has done that is impeachable.  While technically you can impeach for anything in order for it to mean anything he has to be found guilty of something. What is that something? The current thing is a "third party"  says a second party saw that trump is withholding funds from Ukraine until they investigate hunter Biden(Joe Biden's son) who may have used his dads position when his dad was Vice President of the u.s.  to secure a high paying job in a natural gas company when he knows absolutely nothing about natural gas.  Joe Biden also threatened to hold foreign aid to the Ukraine unless they fired  victor yanukovych(sp). So seems to trumps opposition is wanting to impeach him for withholding funds which is what biden did. am I missing something here?

 

[JohnRoberts]

shhhh this is just the current political strategy, enjoy the show.  :

JR

 

[Matador]

am I missing something here?

Yes.  Impeachment is a political process, and is not predicated on any guilty verdicts prior to starting the articles (in fact, given the OLC memo, it's theoretically impossible to charge a sitting president for any crimes).

In terms of 'what has he done'. his obstruction activities (at least 9 different ones documented in the Mueller report) would have sunk any other president within 10 minutes.  The Ukraine stuff is likely just more icing on an already thick cake.

 

[Bo Deadly]

and what would they be? See this is where I am wondering. They talk of impeachment because he has done so many things right? Well, name one? Give me one thing he has done that is impeachable.

Again, I think impeachment is a horrible tactic but he could easily be impeached for multiple offenses which include but are not limited to the following in no particular order:

Obstruction of Justice - He fired Comey and admitted on TV that it was because of that "Russer thing". He told McGahn to fire Mueller over "conflicts" that were rediculous enough that McGahn threatened to quit over "crazy s**t".

Emoluments - Rump has directly received money from foreign leaders, diplomats, and numerous other entities who have purchased empty rooms at his properties and who have business with the US government. He has indirectly exploited his position to the benefit of is family such as Kushner coercing Qatar to bail out his underwater NYC property. Rump is literally getting paid huge money to play golf at his own properties.

Russian Collusion - Rump has been trying to curry favor with Russia since forever. He ran for president to increase his profile and brand so that the Russians would take him seriously and let him build a luxury hotel in Moscow. This explains why, at every opportunity, he has defended Russia, who has a long history of contempt for one another, over his own country.

Lies - He lies like floor tiles. It's hard to have faith that your president is acting in your countries best interest when he lies about everything and often. Most of the time he's just making things up because he's trying to sound like he knows what he's talking about. But is that better or worse?

There's also divisive rhetoric ("fine people"), inciting murder (El Paso shooter's "manifestor" was just regurgitated Rump tweets), abuse of power (pardoning people for personal political purposes), reckless behavior (Russian spy with access to Putin's desk and valuable intel had to be extracted because worried Rump would expose him/her).

Need I go on?

 

[desol]

From impeachment stupidity to impeachment inquiry.

Yes!!

 

[living sounds]

and what would they be? See this is where I am wondering. They talk of impeachment because he has done so many things right? Well, name one? Give me one thing he has done that is impeachable.  While technically you can impeach for anything in order for it to mean anything he has to be found guilty of something. What is that something? The current thing is a "third party"  says a second party saw that trump is withholding funds from Ukraine until they investigate hunter Biden(Joe Biden's son) who may have used his dads position when his dad was Vice President of the u.s.  to secure a high paying job in a natural gas company when he knows absolutely nothing about natural gas.  Joe Biden also threatened to hold foreign aid to the Ukraine unless they fired  victor yanukovych(sp). So seems to trumps opposition is wanting to impeach him for withholding funds which is what biden did. am I missing something here?

https://www.needtoimpeach.com/impeachable-offenses/

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/05/impeaching-trump-reasonable/588496/

 

[living sounds]

Again, I think impeachment is a horrible tactic but he could easily be impeached for multiple offenses which include but are not limited to the following in no particular order:

Again, it is about principles, the Consitution and being a nation of laws.

Aside from that, the impeachment process is meant to bring out the offenses into broad daylight. It may very well turn out to be a horrible tactic, to just look at the current polls. Trump has evaded consequences for so long because he is good at diverting attention. Once people get to understand what he has actually done, opionions may shift rapidly and decisively.

 

[pucho812]

None of those can be proven and there is a lot of hearsay.

I love how they use second and third hand hearsay as proof. you would thing they need a little more to impeach but I guess that's good enough for the vultures.  I also love their claim on the Ukraine when the real story there is bidden and his kid hunter.  oh well lets see what happens this time, they may get something to stick but I doubt it.

FWIW in the history of our nation, only two presidents to date have been impeached, Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton.  Nixon left office before impeachment proceedings.

 

[living sounds]

Believe me, I am not looking foward to a President Mike Pence. That's a whole other kind of nuts...

 

[Bo Deadly]

None of those can be proven and there is a lot of hearsay.

In an impeachment there is no burden of proof "beyond a reasonable doubt" like in a criminal trial. The house conducts the impeachment investigation and then sends the results to the Senate for a trial and then rule on removal.

However, there is a lot of proof actually. They can look at his businesses and see who's paying for what and how much. That's evidence. He admitted to Lester Holt that he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation. Dowd and McGhan can give first-person accounts as to Rumps instructions. Even in a criminal case that sort of testimony is evidence of criminal behavior. Just because someone speaks in sideways statements like "someone should be fired [wink]" is not enough protect them. Even in a criminal trial a jury could see through that and convict.

But again, impeachment does not require proof like some tape recording or photo of someone handing him a briefcase full of money. A pattern of behavior is enough.

 

[Matador]

you would thing they need a little more to impeach but I guess that's good enough for the vultures.  I also love their claim on the Ukraine when the real story there is bidden and his kid hunter. 

If it helps, imagine a hypothetical President Hillary Clinton doing all of the same things...see that rage you are feeling?

 

[pucho812]

If it helps, imagine a hypothetical President Hillary Clinton doing all of the same things...see that rage you are feeling?

except when she did far worse no one batted an eye.