M149 clone build

[Spencerleehorton]

Hi guys and gals,

Wondered whether anyone has attempted building a M149 clone?
Seems the body is 70mm wide so I could possibly make a few on my new lathe!!!
Getting some brass down to a forge to be melted hopefully into some round bar then I should be in business.

Spence.

 

[micaddict]

Do you mean the body only or the electronics, too?
Trannyless tube affair with IC parts?

 

[Spencerleehorton]

Anyone have a full schematic, psu and mic?

 

[Spencerleehorton]

I've found the M147 schematic , how different is the M149?

 

[Matt Nolan]

Neumann have been very tight-lipped about the M149. I don't believe there is a published, or leaked, schematic anywhere on the internet. There was some controversy over whether or not it was a true tube mic when Klaus or Grosser or Archut had a look inside one and saw something they thought was fishy. It sounds to me like they are running the front diapragm through the tube and the rear diaphragm through a FET circuit and then combining the signals *post* impedance conversion to produce the different patterns. This gives a noise performance advantage as you never capacitively load one diaphragm with the other and, the tube *is* always in the circuit, whichever pattern you select. Saturn Sound has some photos, but not enough to reverse engineer a schematic.

 

[micaddict]

Minus 100 for me, please. 

But the pattern selection on the body could come in handy.
And that might have electronical advantages, too.
Hard switched?

 

[micaddict]

BTW, Max Kircher (ioaudio) once posted a series of pictures of M147 internals, when he was doing a mod.

Here's one of 'em:

I have a feeling he knows more about the M149, too.

Perhaps he chimes in.

 

[ln76d]

http://repforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=3697.0

 

[Spencerleehorton]

well it seems it may always be a mystery if it has components incased in plastic!!!
better start saving for one then!!!

 

[micaddict]

well it seems it may always be a mystery if it has components incased in plastic!!!
better start saving for one then!!!

Yup, that's the new world of microphones.
Oh well, the old Neumanns sound better anyway.
And those have no secrets for this here group.  8)

On new Gefell models you can't even open the bodies it seems.

 

[Spencerleehorton]

maybe a M147 with a AC701 tube might be a good idea? i have a spare AC701, body wise it seems a bit smaller 57mm by 142mm long, but only has cardioid.
I suppose there is a way on implementing several other patterns though right?

regards

Spence.

 

[dirty1_1garry]

Couple month ago I've traced M147 board from original schematic for GT-2B clone body. It's still in my computer)

 

[Spencerleehorton]

thanks garry this is a great help!!!
do you have anymore info? or drawings?

regards

Spence.

 

[dirty1_1garry]

thanks garry this is a great help!!!
do you have anymore info? or drawings?

Another info - someday I will made in))

I used to think that M147 and M149 are the same. But spending 2minitues in google gave me a such results:
- Same tube, same capsules, different circuit topologies. There's a weird FET parallel path thing going on inside the 149. The 147 is just a triode with an active load followed by some opamps to drive the line instead of a transformer.
- The M147 is very special, the M149 is very versatile.
- My experience with the M147 was that I always had a mic that sounded better on any given source than it did.

 

[Spencerleehorton]

Hi Garry,

That's interesting you say you always had a better mic on any source than the M147, maybe I won't bother then!
In my mic locker I have ELAM 251, M269c, M49b + M49c, U47, U87, U67, C12, C12a, FET47, KM84, ribbon mics and loads of dynamic mics.
Would anyone be so bold as to suggest what I'm missing?
Regards

Spence.

 

[dirty1_1garry]

Hi Garry,
That's interesting you say you always had a better mic on any source than the M147, maybe I won't bother then!
In my mic locker I have ELAM 251, M269c, M49b + M49c, U47, U87, U67, C12, C12a, FET47, KM84, ribbon mics and loads of dynamic mics.
Would anyone be so bold as to suggest what I'm missing?

That's not my opinion as I never heard M147/M149, I found a couple threads about M147/9 over the gearslutz, that was opinion one of a member))
Nice batch of finest microphones!! It would be nice to hear your opinion about M147/M149 comparing with mics from your mic locker.

 

[micaddict]

Spence, if you like the sound of your telephone, get the M147.


What are you missing in your locker?

Man, my first question would be where do I find all the talent to sing and play through those things.

But hey, as a mic addict I do understand. 

Perhaps a couple more SDC for balance?

Oh, and for LDC you could take take a look at the bright side.
Sony C800g. Basically a super airy 67, but its own thing.
Manley Reference Gold. Basically a super airy Ela M, but its own thing.
Both are used a lot in quite a few modern high end studio's.

 

[Spencerleehorton]

Yes, I've thought about the S800G as have had many talks with Jess Jackson about it.
I honestly didn't realise the M147 and M149 were considered as bad as you say.
To be honest I might just make a few more U67 and M269 as I really like them and have a little play with them.

Spence.

 

[micaddict]

Yes, I've thought about the S800G as have had many talks with Jess Jackson about it.

I'm not a big promotor of overly bright mics, but both the Sony and the Manley have that (big) bulge starting above 10k.
So they're airy rather than edgy if that makes sense.
Firstly, this offers a modern sound (but a stock U67 takes an air lift like no other, so there's more than one way).
Secondly,  these airy mics sound great through headphones. I'm not a big fan of cans, but most vocalists use them nowadays. And hearing the airband above the usual resonance that goes on, both in your head and via the electronic "feedback" somehow makes you sing better. Not many talk about this,  but I believe this is a considerable part of their success. Vocalists love to sing through them. And engineers can always darken the track afterwards if need be. At least he'll have an inspired take to work with.

I honestly didn't realise the M147 and M148 were considered as bad as you say.

I'll add that, although I wouldn't buy one, the M149 is a lot more useable than the M147.

To be honest I might just make a few more U67 and M269 as I really like them and have a little play with them.

You have very good taste, sir.
But eating your favorite dish every day might make you want to try something else now and then. 

 

[Spencerleehorton]

Very true, S800G it is then, I will try and put a switch to implement diodes and tubes in the psu to give two styles of sound rather like the Mesa boogie dual rectifier.

Spence.