mic & mod... good choice?

[dmnieto]

It's not about legal, it's about doing the right thing, ethics and just being cool, that's what all these guys who are being screwed adhere too, none of them are making a living off of the things they came up with here, it's mostly about passion,... Not unlike most of us here.

Actually It is, specially if you want to avoid libel. What is perfectly legal is for the forum to refuse to associate itself with a company that shows little respect for the spirit in which this forum is based on... which is fair.

That said, it was so friggingly evident that they were almost the same product, that the mere fact that his posts in the white market were there for such a long time without any negative comments from anybody that I had to assume there was an agreement.

And I am happy the farce is over.

Now, a mod should close this thread and send it to Oblivion. possibly with Yannick's account. 

 

[Matador]

There's not much to say publically that hasn't already been well handled by the forum owners, but I will say this.

I have never claimed that the C12 was designed by me:  and I'm fairly certain Flea, BeezNeez, Telefunken, AA, or any of the other myriad cloners don't either.  I'm 99.99999999% certain that Max doesn't claim that he invented the U47 (and I won't speak for him in any case).

What I did (hope to) do with the C12 project however was to:

1) Refactor the PSU with modern components, and design a layout around the Alctron PSU case that the average DIY'er would have a good chance of building him/herself.  I redid the heater supply to use a modern regulator.  It took 2 or 3 versions to make sure the component layouts were sound, and that stuff was in the right place to clear all of the internal obstructions, etc.
2) Refactor the PSU to handle more modern tube types, while retaining the spirit of the original design (and I deviated where I thought deviation was a benefit)
3) Adjust the design so that the PSU worked with the stock Alctron transformer
4) Created a new main PCB to fit the Alctron layout...this design was specifically done with esthetics in mind:  I basically wanted it to look like an old Fender AB763 turret board on the inside.  In any case, I thought it looked cool.  ;D
4) Worked to get my PCB supplier in touch with a better soldermask formulation that has better insulating properties, so the high impedance section didn't need any component gymnastics or special isolation considerations (other than a good IPA cleaning).
5) I created a complete BOM from scratch, using my knowledge of suppliers like Vishay and Nichicon, and worked to make sure the BOM selection were generally available to the DIY'er (no unobtainium parts!)

I won't even go into the special circle of hell Chunger went through to get headbasket tooling, arranging for shipping, delivery, and customs for hundreds of mike bodies, staying up all night soldering and testing prototypes, driving all over northern California getting prototypes to studios, etc, etc, etc.

I of course have no problem with anyone making their own creation (I applaud it!)!

That's clearly not what happened here:  someone took my schematics, implemented the same design, using the same BOM/components (even copying some of my arbitrary component selections, like the 4.7R filter resistor), put the components even in basically the same positions.  Nobody once ever asked for permission or a blessing (and I likely would have given it). 

We do these projects because we want to put high quality tools in the hands of mere mortals to do great things.  We're not getting rich off of it.  We generally however do want credit where credit is due!

That's all I have to say about it.

 

[micandmod]

I think it's time to set the record straight.
Many people talk about on this forum, without knowing what they are talking about.
Think twice before saying things like some I have read.
We're just trying to lincher me in a public place.

1. C12 project: before starting the C12 project, I contacted Matador for Partnering, and whether he could make me a design. His answer was negative. Obviously, I am a "French" competitor frowned for a business already in place ...

2. C12 headbasket: everybody knows that the first order of microphone was commissioned from Alctron. When I ordered HT-11A, they offered me their new headgrille similar to Chunger headbasket. As I have explained many times to Chunger, I never knew that it was he who crafted this headgrille. Thereafter, he wanted me to stop the sale and throw my stock?? think many people here would open a book and see what a REAL business. With these charges, these taxes, and so on! Now the stock is primarily our kits, and I'm starting my own equipment for future orders.

3. PSU Vintage Box from Dan: What's the problem?? Bought two pieces of the PSU, I finally sold on the website. I also contacted Dan and asked if we could order in large quantities! Finally, I will make another PSU myself, who do not look at all this! When I told you that people talk without knowing ...

4. U47 DIY: I do not understand the obsession of a single part of the project (which is not subject to a patent): the 2 tubes in parallel. I recall a friend who studied electronics the VF14 tube and other recreations Flea for example, told me about this technique of tube in parallel which has nothing really revolutionary here, and especially unique!

In short, all this to say that you are in a false debate.
All I see is we are trying to demonize Mic & Mod, to not to lose its small market.

You can explain all this to our satisfied customers.
It is a pity that some people have taken their dependent.

A word to the wise.

PS: to dmnieto: be polite, I've always been

 

[chunger]

Hi dmnieto,

The reason you did not see a lot of direct commenting particularly on the white market threads is standard forum etiquette. . . it is not good to "thread crap" especially because those threads financially support the operations of this forum.  It is also a violation of forum rules to do so.  This issue was handled properly with many concerned parties bringing the issue up with forum admin privately without a lot of public mud-slinging.

For my part, I am a DIY enthusiast and my goal is to make EVERY project that I do many times easier for anybody else who follows after to complete. . . and I do it with enthusiasm and great curiosity.  As there is only 1 "kit" so far that I've been directly involved with in design (and due to my complete and utter lack of technical knowledge, it is at best "back-seat" designing. . . ok, I just pester MAtador about trivial stuff until he throws me a bone).  . . I build a lot of other people's stuff and evangelize DIY as best I can because I think it's awesome.  I think the people here who share their expertise and designs openly are awesome.  I learn something all the time, and I can build some premium quality tools for making music.

I'm happy about what we have been able to bring to the table in regards to microphone DIY, and we must be doing something right to have people copying it. . . almost exactly for that matter. 

Sidenote:  I didn't know that Matador did the work with the PCB vendor to implement improved/leading-edge soldermask formulations for our boards to address the HiZ sections.  They literally have "special sauce" on them.  8)

As for micandmod "setting the record straight", I will paint a picture with his own words unabridged and y'all can decide for yourself how far to trust his posted statements.


-------------------------------
Yannick via Big Cartel [email protected] via pm.mtasv.net

5/1/13



to me

From: Yannick ([email protected])

Hello Chunger,
I forgot to ask.
I plan to make a website for online sales of computer equipment in France.
I need to take pictures of my products.
I saw your photos of tutorials and products which are of excellent quality, can you tell me what equipment do you use?
I plan to buy a SLR. Do you have any references or picture of your installation?
Thank you so much!

-----------------------------------


Yannick CLOSSET [email protected]

5/1/13



to me

Thanks a lot, Chung!
It's nice.
I don't know if you have receive my other email.
I would like to know if you sell yet the microphone body GT-2B.
When do you receive the alctron HT11 and custom headbasket?
Do they come to the same factory (Alctron)?
Thanks!
Yannick

--------------------------------------

Yanki Music [email protected]

5/9/13



to me

Thank you Chung !
I would especially like to take you two T-11A with two custom headbasket.
The custom headbasket C12/ELA-251 is also make by Alctron? Do they come from China or are they made in the USA like the JJ Headbasket C12?
When are they available?
Then, maybe take you the MK47. This is a good microphone? Is it also good for mod?
Thank you for your answers and your job for the DIY community!
Best regards
Yannick

---------------------------------------

Yannick CLOSSET [email protected]

5/18/13



to me

Thanks Chung' for your reply.
I will thus wait until you have T-11a in stock.
I think all the same of ordering some headbasket of C12, because lot of my friends expect since some time.
I will be except subject but, I search a Chinese supplier of manufacturing of metal to create strainers and sieve in metal to be imported into France. I have not bad worries to find a good supplier. Which is the manufacturing plant of metal which you know and of which you know that you can trust? I can always ask them a project. Thank you very much for your answer Chung.
Yanki


--------------------------------------------

Hello,
After several questions by email, I still have not received a response from you Chung.
I have already ordered several products on your site, I am very disappointed not to have received an answer to my question.
I thought this was a mutual-aid forum and not a mass market.
I wanted to make realize a headbasket for T-Bone microphone for some of my friends.
The Alctron factory can not make me such Headbasket.
I just wanted to know what is your metal factory of Headbaskets so I could ask them, because I have contacts in China, I can get a smaller MOQ. I understand that you do not want to disclose this information, but it seems to me that this forum is a mutual-aid for DIY user.
Best.
Yanki

I think it's time to set the record straight.
Many people talk about on this forum, without knowing what they are talking about.
Think twice before saying things like some I have read.
We're just trying to lincher me in a public place.

1. C12 project: before starting the C12 project, I contacted Matador for Partnering, and whether he could make me a design. His answer was negative. Obviously, I am a "French" competitor frowned for a business already in place ...

2. C12 headbasket: everybody knows that the first order of microphone was commissioned from Alctron. When I ordered HT-11A, they offered me their new headgrille similar to Chunger headbasket. As I have explained many times to Chunger, I never knew that it was he who crafted this headgrille. Thereafter, he wanted me to stop the sale and throw my stock?? think many people here would open a book and see what a REAL business. With these charges, these taxes, and so on! Now the stock is primarily our kits, and I'm starting my own equipment for future orders.

3. PSU Vintage Box from Dan: What's the problem?? Bought two pieces of the PSU, I finally sold on the website. I also contacted Dan and asked if we could order in large quantities! Finally, I will make another PSU myself, who do not look at all this! When I told you that people talk without knowing ...

4. U47 DIY: I do not understand the obsession of a single part of the project (which is not subject to a patent): the 2 tubes in parallel. I recall a friend who studied electronics the VF14 tube and other recreations Flea for example, told me about this technique of tube in parallel which has nothing really revolutionary here, and especially unique!

In short, all this to say that you are in a false debate.
All I see is we are trying to demonize Mic & Mod, to not to lose its small market.

You can explain all this to our satisfied customers.
It is a pity that some people have taken their dependent.

A word to the wise.

PS: to dmnieto: be polite, I've always been

 

[ioaudio]

4. U47 DIY: I do not understand the obsession of a single part of the project (which is not subject to a patent): the 2 tubes in parallel. I recall a friend who studied electronics the VF14 tube and other recreations Flea for example, told me about this technique of tube in parallel which has nothing really revolutionary here, and especially unique!

From the description of your website (no, i wont post a link):

"Today, it is increasingly rare to find in good condition a real VF14 tube from original U47.
To reproduce this legend tube, our engineers have developed a circuit of two 408 Military NOS tubes in parallel, perfectly copies the sound of VF14 tubes.
The sound quality of a vintage U47, with a very low noise level. A revolution!"

 

[Johnkenn]

and on that GS thread I think it is quite clear.

Hush yo mouth! That was a RGO thread not GS...BIG difference

;D

 

[dmnieto]

and on that GS thread I think it is quite clear.

Hush yo mouth! That was a RGO thread not GS...BIG difference

;D

sorry...

 

[Johnkenn]

Its just incredibly unethical. A while back, I had someone take a mic shootout I posted on GS (I had 5000 posts before being banned) and posted it on ebay as a comparison/shootout CD for sale. Unfreakingbelievable. I really don't see how this is much different.

4. U47 DIY: I do not understand the obsession of a single part of the project (which is not subject to a patent): the 2 tubes in parallel. I recall a friend who studied electronics the VF14 tube and other recreations Flea for example, told me about this technique of tube in parallel which has nothing really revolutionary here, and especially unique!

From the description of your website (no, i wont post a link):

"Today, it is increasingly rare to find in good condition a real VF14 tube from original U47.
To reproduce this legend tube, our engineers have developed a circuit of two 408 Military NOS tubes in parallel, perfectly copies the sound of VF14 tubes.
The sound quality of a vintage U47, with a very low noise level. A revolution!"

 

[teacat]

I thought I smelled a rat....

 

[kidvybes]

I think it's time to set the record straight.

...otherwise known as, "re-writing history"...

 

[melomane]

PFFF this post is really shit! can we ever go back to DIY? 

 

[sliebers]

4. U47 DIY: I do not understand the obsession of a single part of the project (which is not subject to a patent): the 2 tubes in parallel. I recall a friend who studied electronics the VF14 tube and other recreations Flea for example, told me about this technique of tube in parallel which has nothing really revolutionary here, and especially unique!

From the description of your website (no, i wont post a link):

"Today, it is increasingly rare to find in good condition a real VF14 tube from original U47.
To reproduce this legend tube, our engineers have developed a circuit of two 408 Military NOS tubes in parallel, perfectly copies the sound of VF14 tubes.

The sound quality of a vintage U47, with a very low noise level. A revolution!"

Piss poor business practice.  While Max doesn't hold a patent on the U-47 circuit, he did come up with the idea of using two 6028/408 tubes in parallel.  Everyone here knows it.  He was the first, and also gracious to share his ideas and project with the Group DIY members.  It's sad at many levels.  A result might be people being hesitant to share knowledge and ideas openly on this and other forums in the future.  You never know who's trolling trying to make a profit off you.

 

[drew571]

interesting debate.  i was trying to wait for the next shipment of chunger's 87 bodies to arrive since they look like the best quality, but the mic&mod came across my radar as I was browsing the forums.  I think i'll force myself to wait.  The sonic differences between mic&mod mics and the u87i on their website are different enough that I think it's worth the wait, not to mention the benefit of supporting some of the DIY pioneers that have made this community what it is.

 

[bernbrue]

De ja vue!!

Youngsters possibly can´t remember but didn´t we have the same situation with Purusha cases bundled with pcbs of our projects?? Moreover they were even faulty. An endless, very anoying thread that finally ended in Purusha being banned from the forum.

Not to speak of Skylar´s U47 body, built on the bases of contributing people from this forum, sold to the very same members for quite a lot of money and finally sold to Chinese mic factory Alctron.

Some people contribute and profit in terms of knowledge, some people provide us with nice projects and parts without making any profit, others just lurk, leech and sell. For the latter this place must be a kind of paradies. Can we stop this? I don´t think so.
regards
Bernd

 

[dmnieto]

De ja vue!!

Youngsters possibly can´t remember but didn´t we have the same situation with Purusha cases bundled with pcbs of our projects?? Moreover they were even faulty. An endless, very anoying thread that finally ended in Purusha being banned from the forum.

Ohhh, so Purusha was actually banned from the forum? I specifically made a mention that I did not see a difference between what micandmod was doing and what purusha does... Everything comes into full circle.

BTW, is there a forum that spells out what are the tenants of good conduct in the forum?

 

[Spiritworks]

Good conduct should pretty much be common sense, based on an ethical character, no? What I would like to know is, how does a relatively inexperienced DIY person such as myself weed through all the chaff and determine who is the chicken and who is the egg?

 

[3nity]

good lord thanks i wast banned from this forum when i designed the access-312 preamp.
based at that time on the Reliquia-312...

And thanks god many people werent banned when they designed more 312 pcbs that looked like my pcb design.

This doesnt smell like nothing but fear to loose money!

 

[3nity]

Wow..havent had an opportunity to read the whole thing untill now.
What a shame the third poster  wow...out of topic.

What a shame.

 

[usekgb]

I think a big problem with Parusha's cases was that he was putting actual company logos on his cases, and making them look like authentic pieces.  This is fine if you are building one for your own use, and want to have some fun.  This is not ok when you are selling a product. 

 

[EEMO1]

I know max has some original designs, but otherwise isn't this a case of someone ripping off cloners?

shouldn't akg and neumann be pissed too?