Peterson Goodwyn said:
Wow, this is really unfortunate. Another battle in the War for the Soul of GroupDIY.
Are we a free marketplace or a community devoted to each others' mutual benefit? Clearly we are a bit of both.
You could see Mic and Mod as doing the work of the Invisible Hand. The factory that Chunger worked with sold them the headbaskets, after all. So, from a free-market perspective I see some playing dirty but overall, bravo, they made the marketplace more efficient.
But what's really at stake is the collaborative and sharing nature of this community. This is the "pearl beyond price," and Mic and Mod, it seems to me, has undermined it after having benefited from it. Incorporating others' work (I won't say "stealing") without attribution is inexcusable; it discourages people from sharing their work in the future. Same with posing as an earnest newbie to extract information about vendors; that's sewing distrust in the community. If I thought there were a profit-motive behind every email question I got, I'd be less likely to share what I know.
I wish Mic and Mod the best of luck in the marketplace, but I support the decision to ban them from the community.
Just wanted to say that as casual observer and a bit of a leech due to lack of technical ability and an all round drama lover, this has to be the most nuanced and least polarising post we've had in this thread yet and one that I mostly agree with. I like it because it seems to be the fairest appraisal of the situation at hand and reflects my own views more eloquently than I myself could!
That said, and and acknowledging that I'm a nobody, I would like to disagree with the banning of m&m though.
Personally, I don't want to buy any of their offerings, and the slightly dubious origins is a cause for concern with regards to the community, but the other side of that is the vocal group (seemingly a lynch mob!) of competitors that have chimed in. Perhaps the evidence is overwhelming in your own day to day dealings of what has happened, but to someone on the sidelines, it just looks plain bad and doesn't reflect well on anyone. That said, only one person in this thread comes off as a complete dick, as most of you have kept your posts classy and stayed away from the insults.
I'd also like to say that mic and mod are better as part of the community than not, simply because the damage is already done and anyone who wants that kind of "no thought required" solution will go to them anyway because they're there and word will get around anyway. However, including them in the community regardless, means that groupdiy will still be a gateway to mic and mod in some ways, and surely that's a good thing. Obviously that would allow the forum to make money from the WM listing, but the real benefit is the "gateway drug effect". Sure, people who just want cheap mic bundles will buy from mic and mod, and that will make some of you furious, but on the flip side, some people will be drawn in by the simplicity of their offerings and once they're part of the forum and hooked, they might well decide that they want to get a bit more involved and instead opt for one of the less "paint by numbers" projects around here. By including m&m, you will at least get the opportunity to educate the people buying from them, but by excluding them, you lose the ability to have any meaningful interaction with their customers (assuming you think my point is valid).
Yes, the lack of attribution and general sneakiness is pretty bad, but if you're not actually competing over the same customers, and in fact, their customers might one day become your customers, then perhaps it's worth looking at the positive side instead?
Please don't lynch me...I actually think most of you are doing great work!
Kaz
P.S. My day job is as a Software Engineer who builds games, so I'm all too familiar with clones, rip-offs, illegal copying etc.. I'm also a one man business, who isn't particularly successful at the moment, so I understand the feeling of being up against a wall.
