Need advice for improving isolation in miking a string bass live on stage. Jazz mostly

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RE15 rear response is far flatter and smoother than any LDC.

Bob Ohlsson even used them on violin.

Plot shows how much tighter it is than a regular card. Since no proximity hump, you can place as close as you need; aim it's backside to nearest part of the drum kit.

https://electrovoice.com/media/down...lassic_ev_microphone_design_and_evolution.pdf
Here's RE20 on bass, with the drumer right next to him (maybe not as loud as yours ; - )

Nice. They are running $3-500 used, no new ones, obviously. This drummer is playing brushes on the whole track so he's much softer, playing to a very reverberant room in an a primarily acoustic group. I wish I knew what they were when some radio & tv stations decided to replace them! Worried I'd get one on it's last legs. Thanks you for your help. Greatly appreciated. I'll keep an eye out.
 
I would want to try an omni lavalier clipped to the tail piece in front of the f hole. The problem with tight polar patterns is that they exhibit enhanced proximity effect. Exactly what you don’t want. With an omni you can get a better sound up close and the off axis response would sound much better. In other words the bleed may not be significantly reduced but it will sound better overall.
There is a lot of air moving through the f hole. It's like the tuning port of a bass reflex speaker. A physics prof once blew out a lit match with air thru the f holes of a violin. He damn near lit the fiddle on fire, too.

I'll add that to the list to try if I can borrow the mic easily. BTW, the tailpiece has its own motion while a string vibrates, and because of its mass is slower to start and resonates at a subsonic freq.

Thank you for your suggestion.
 
I’ve played upright bass since I was young. I always thought the best place to mic it was a couple of feet away at the bridge and f hole. With a gooseneck you could get the mic close to the bridge too. Maybe up through the bridge and under the fingerboard?
 
Hi.

I haven't tried it, mainly because I rely on other -more feedback friendly- miking methods on the rare occasions I get to play my beaten up DB with others, but about a decade ago I stumbled upon something over the "dark side" of TB (TalkBass.com) I felt was a novel idea for more natural and controlled DB sound in a live band setting.

For some reason I can't find the thread, but IIRC someone had put a regular ribbon mic (figure 8 as suggested in the early replies) between the top and the strings, with excellent results in a jazz gig setting.
A while later a tb:er BrandonEssex announced that he was launching a special ribbon mic for a DB called Troll Microphone (because trolls live under a bridge :)).
http://trollmicrophone.com/
As can be expected the opinions vary, some swear by it, some at it, but that approach is definitely something I'd definitely consider and try, should the need arise.
Being a diyholic, of course I wouldn't dream of buying one :D.

Regards,
Sam
 
Many have had good results with an ATM35 (current model is ATM350) clipped on so it's dead side is towards the drums. Even though it's a card, it's 2-pole HP filter (ATM35:160Hz; ATM350: 80Hz) is specifically designed to compensate for close micing.

They can also be fitted with omni capsules (even hypercardioid!); I always start with the omni and only switch if not getting enough iso.

http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Audio-Technica/ATM350
 
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Loud drums cause problems even with compression and cymbals create phase funnies with the drum mics. I want to make mixing easier.

Loud drums...ask the drummer to NOT play so loud. Its really as simple as that. Bleed should be your friend. If not fix the problem(s) at the source. Period.

/Peter
 
I wanted to try a fig8 mounted on the bridge nulling the horisontal plane (piano, drums and audiance).
But never had the chance.

Plexi between drums and bass is an idea aswell.
 
I wanted to try a fig8 mounted on the bridge nulling the horisontal plane (piano, drums and audiance).
But never had the chance.

Plexi between drums and bass is an idea aswell.
Figure 8 that close is going to have massive proximity effect.
 
Good point.
Is it more of a problem than just eqing it out ?
Wouldnt it isolate the lowend between the bass and drums even more?
 
I’ve never had great results with plexi.

A soft gobo can work great, but may not be ideal live in front of an audience unless positioned very unobtrusively (but still effectively).

Plexi also looks bad onstage (imo) but has the additional disadvantage of being very splashy and reflective.
 
Loud drums...ask the drummer to NOT play so loud. Its really as simple as that. Bleed should be your friend. If not fix the problem(s) at the source. Period.

/Peter
YOU tell him!! If only it was that simple . . . .There are times when playing loud is part of the music. We have different guests each week so the music and vibe changes.
 
Figure 8 that close is going to have massive proximity effect.
That can be eq'd out but I don't stand perfectly still. I change positions depending on the situation.

I received the mic hood. I'm going to give that a go the next time. I think it will be better if I surround it with something like vinyl.

As always, thank everyone for their collective experience and thought.
 
Lauten LS-308, 2nd order cardioid pattern. Have been using one onstage with a live music radio broadcast, sometimes with drums as close as 10 feet away. Even in that case, I can almost use it by itself, a DI signal doesn't have to be in there much at all. Bassist loves the sound of it. Had a DPA mounted on the bass previously, that's just a room mic.

Other option in post - Isotope RX10.
 
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Hi.

I haven't tried it, mainly because I rely on other -more feedback friendly- miking methods on the rare occasions I get to play my beaten up DB with others, but about a decade ago I stumbled upon something over the "dark side" of TB (TalkBass.com) I felt was a novel idea for more natural and controlled DB sound in a live band setting.

For some reason I can't find the thread, but IIRC someone had put a regular ribbon mic (figure 8 as suggested in the early replies) between the top and the strings, with excellent results in a jazz gig setting.
A while later a tb:er BrandonEssex announced that he was launching a special ribbon mic for a DB called Troll Microphone (because trolls live under a bridge :)).
http://trollmicrophone.com/
As can be expected the opinions vary, some swear by it, some at it, but that approach is definitely something I'd definitely consider and try, should the need arise.
Being a diyholic, of course I wouldn't dream of buying one :D.

Regards,
Sam
I found a MXL R144 ribbon for $99. Anyone have an opinion about them?
 
Loud drums...ask the drummer to NOT play so loud. Its really as simple as that. Bleed should be your friend. If not fix the problem(s) at the source. Period.

/Peter
What happens if the drummer gets certain tones from his kit depending on the velocity of hitting the instrument?

What if the drummer refuses/is not skilled enough to play quieter?

What if the spill is more caused by the location of the drummer rather than the volume and it can't be changed?

While certainly a good option to explore. I don't agree this is the definitive answer to solve the problem.

Personally I really dislike bleed and it's not friend. For me it is an acquaintance that I need to tolerate and work with.
 
Lauten LS-308. Have been using one onstage with a live music radio broadcast, sometimes with drums as close as 10 feet away. Even in that case, I can almost use it by itself, a DI signal doesn't have to be in there much at all. Bassist loves the sound of it. Had a DPA mounted on the bass previously, that's just a room mic.
Thank you. They're fairly expensive but good to know about
This is an expensive solution but possibly a very good one... Xlson audio – A new generation in acoustic instrument microphones
It is a custom made Pearl microphone made specifically for Xlsonaudio.

View attachment 107747
You are correct sir, an expensive solution. Like the other mic, it's $1/2 kilobuck. Trying to get more info.
 
I've done live sound for many many years and I can say that when you feed a 58 through the middle two strings below the bridge and then plug it in, that that's a fantastic placement. Take it one step further and use a beta 58 which will have much less bleed from the drums. That way your mic is always pointed directly at the wood, it's very close, and you're using a microphone that's working in your favor to minimize bleed. If you could figure out a way to use a ribbon mic, I'd say go for it. You'll probably have to eq out a ton of bass if you do, though. The beta 58 will be much more forgiving from stage to stage to stage. And much more well-know to engineers you encounter.

Depending on how precious you are about your bass, you can find the right piece of soft foam or other methods of making sure that it's secure and not going to move or cause any damage.

Hope that helps!
 
What happens if the drummer gets certain tones from his kit depending on the velocity of hitting the instrument?
I've convinced the drummer to avoid tuning his drums to my open string pitches : E A D G. Actually Ron Carter did.
What if the drummer refuses/is not skilled enough to play quieter?
He's not on my bandstand the next gig.
What if the spill is more caused by the location of the drummer rather than the volume and it can't be changed?
In my case, where I have the option to record, there is room to adjust, plus rugs.
While certainly a good option to explore. I don't agree this is the definitive answer to solve the problem.
Personally I really dislike bleed and it's not friend. For me it is an acquaintance that I need to tolerate and work with.

These are the challenges of recording live. If someone comes up with a pickup that sounds as the bass does I think he will make hundreds of dollars. smile - it's jazz.

Edit: Loud is part of the music. I don't want to step on the drummer's expression too much either. There's a happy medium somewhere.
 
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