New CK12 capsule measurements

[GeorgeToledo]

In my 15 years of pro studio and live work with top notch, but also low end performers, the better musician the less fuss about gear used.

Two of my favorite studio cat monsters played regularly on 100$ player grade guitars they picked up at random places, but felt confident about the choice as they had no doubts about what they expect from an instrument. Kind of EVH frankenstrat story.

Tiny bit different story on singers, as i'm not sure I've ever met a truly confident singer.

I was thinking of this aspect when I was writing earlier, and how it’s one of the things that leads to new things being considered “classic”.

I have definitely heard famous musicians pickup a hundred dollar guitar, and make you think “wow, it sounds amazing, just like them!”. It doesn’t mean there isn’t something better though.

There are a lot of factors at play. I just don’t discount someone finding inspiration, or some sort of workflow benefit, from a very specific object. Whether new or old, or a copy, cheap or expensive, whatever.

 

[Barry Hufker]

I really enjoy some mics that aren’t based on old sixties mics; Milab quickly comes to mind.

But if the goal is to replicate something, a comparison is pretty valid.

Here’s a comparison. There are so many guitars you can argue are better than an original Fender Stratocaster in some way, even newer versions of Stratocaster, but there is no clear consensus concerning various improvements. The immutable truth is that many renowned recordings were done with them. Was the Lace Sensor strat better or worse? Is the two pivot point Strat bridge better or worse? Is a Yamaha Pacifica or Ibanez JEM better or worse? No consensus.

It is the same for mics.

A million options can be the death of the creative process. The entire act of bringing an idea to the finish line, is the winnowing away of endless options. That draws people towards known quantities.

At the time much of the “classic gear” was invented, in many cases there were much greater resources put into it than goes into product development in this industry today.

Some of the best newer microphone related products are made by the people with the most humility regarding how theirs compares to the “classics”.

"Nothing succeeds like success" -- and the same is true of microphones. Make some fantastic recordings with the new mics and people will flock to your product. Until then, people buy what they know.

And new products require research. Few people are doing that. It is much easier to crib someone else's research.

 

[soliloqueen]

The reason for all of the samey Chinese mics and even the boutique clone bubble are also because they've been previously FCC cleared and certified by other organizations, or in the case of vintage designs don't require FCC clearance for production. The barrier for entry is lower for these vintage designs, which is why you see so many hats in the ring nowadays.

 

[MicMaven]

I think all of you guys are on the right track - it is all that, and more. On the company level, marketing is about crowd appeal; selling as much of an item to as many buyers as possible. I learned early in life that "fashion" and being "cool" is, essentially, a copy cat endeavor, with the crowd trying to look and act like what is generally considered cool - essentially a matter of mass appeal. Nostalgia sells because it links a current new product to a older, already successful and popular product, giving it crowd appeal - even if the connection is nominal, or in name only.

But then, we also know real artists wander about in different directions, and do not follow the crowd - while some become trend setters, they are still cutting their own trail - they are leading and not following the crowd. Marketing is aimed at crowd appeal - so it makes sense to link one's current product to a successful past, almost as if old stuff is always better than the new stuff. People want the good stuff - the cool stuff - so it pays to link one's line with tradition. But, it is just copy catting to make buyers feel they are getting the good stuff. After all, everything was made better 1) by hand, 2) in the old days. (Lots of stuff is sold as hand made - when it is not! because it sells better that way. The worst fraud is Tito's Handmade Vodka - because if you know anything about distilling spirits, you know it cannot be made by hand! But, try telllng that to young people looking for the "best" way to get drunk!)

Gratuitous Sidebar - I decry the proliferation of YouTube videos and Internet articles purporting to list the "10 best whatever", such as Ten Best Microphones for Boring Podcasts, or the Ten Best Headphones for Hopeless Bass Heads, and etc. Neat idea, but most are simply lists of already popular products, with links to Amazon and elsewhere to earn a commission for driving sales under an affiliate commission program. Unfortunately, they are most often fake reviews, written by people who have never tried, let alone own, all of the gear they review.

In the end, it is all about crowd appeal - getting the most folks to buy what is trending, and nostalgia sells new stuff which is conceptually linked to successful old stuff, with a tradition of success. Folks waht what other folks have - fashion is just copy catting to have and be cool - like everyone else. Nostalgia links now the past, I guess.

Disclaimer - a spontaneous untamed group of wild thoughts spawned by previous comments from more articulate souls. James

 

[mrgrooves666]

I must say that I am so over this discussion about how "authentic" the construction of a CK12 is. I have instead simply produced new parts that are 100% exact copies of AKG's even down to the plastic insulation cups for solder tags. As you can see from the pics I show inserting my parts into an AKG and AKG's parts inserted into mine. The brass is threaded into the plastic.

View attachment 115064View attachment 115065View attachment 115066

I will also add that around 2017-2018 I changed my reference capsule to one that was less bright. My capsules were only brighter for a short period because so many customers asked for brighter capsules. Today I would describe my capsule as very well balanced, matching my absolute favorite AKG CK12 capsule in my collection.

wow thanks for sharing this. I'm also personally fedup with the authentic construction stuff. Now we have to open discussion of when you can offer your nice capsules to the DIY community again, that is the new trending topic lmao

 

[kingkorg]

Just look at podcasters these days. I've seen so many go from marvelous mics to ''downgrading'' to SM7B because you can't have a serious podcast these days if you don't use SM7B, cause Joe Rogan. I am very glad because i actually really like Shure as a company, but there are so many better solutions for podcasting. Similar situation with Earthworks on drums last couple of years.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Marketing, hype, YouTube and on first place insecurity and confirmation bias.

Also because they (or rather the original mics) were used on successful records, though that probably falls under both hype and confirmation bias.

Just look at podcasters these days. I've seen so many go from marvelous mics to ''downgrading'' to SM7B because you can't have a serious podcast these days if you don't use SM7B, cause Joe Rogan.

But Michael Jackson used one so that means that it's the perfect choice for everything!!! Also people think they don't have to treat their room if they use a dynamic mic.

 

[berret]

"Nothing succeeds like success" -- and the same is true of microphones. Make some fantastic recordings with the new mics and people will flock to your product. Until then, people buy what they know.

And new products require research. Few people are doing that. It is much easier to crib someone else's research.

It's the same as buying an expensive camera and then believe you are a photographer.

 

[paulcheeba]

Ben’s are the closest I’ve heard yet to the 1960’s C12a or 251 capsules. Almost exactly the same. They don’t pop as much as an older ck12 but I prefer the 1960’s ones.

 

[gyraf]

I don't get why you'd think that - at least the specimens I have come across are not only quite different from the real (brass, non-shallow-disk) CK12 in simple response, but also with quite some variation between individual capsules. Could it be a fluke that by sheer statistic coincidence put a stellar capsule in your hands? Or is your taste just so much different form most others'?

/Jakob E.

 

[Avgatzeblouz]

Personally, in today’s world, for myself, any comparisons to anything vintage makes me want to puke. I truly don’t care even one iota. Do I like it or don’t I like it? That is all that matters to me.

I’ve 4 of Tim’s capsules, 2-more of Tim’s capsules that were highly modified by Luke Audio that they’re truly their own thing, 2 OPRs, and my only experience with Beesneez’s CK12-type was a friend’s C12-type with the typical GE 5-star 6072 and an AMI in a 460-type body. If I ever convince her to sell it to me, I’d die happy (talk about amazing bright and shiny euphoria this mic has); this after currently owning 4-dozen tubes mics, plus daily access to a couple dozen more of the studio-owner’s collection.

How would you compare the OPRs to Tim's ?

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

I was thinking of this aspect when I was writing earlier, and how it’s one of the things that leads to new things being considered “classic”.

I have definitely heard famous musicians pickup a hundred dollar guitar, and make you think “wow, it sounds amazing, just like them!”. It doesn’t mean there isn’t something better though.

There are a lot of factors at play. I just don’t discount someone finding inspiration, or some sort of workflow benefit, from a very specific object. Whether new or old, or a copy, cheap or expensive, whatever.

Don't forget stuff like quality fretwork really adds to the price of a guitar or bass. I've seen an interview where a Fender tech said the best guitar he's done work on was a properly set up Squier.

 

[cortez07]

link. Can anyone confirm if this CK12 capsule is made of accurate brass material, or is it another K67 type attempting to mimic the CK12's characteristics?

 

[kingkorg]

link. Can anyone confirm if this CK12 capsule is made of accurate brass material, or is it another K67 type attempting to mimic the CK12's characteristics?

Edge terminated k67, not true CK12.