New CK12 capsule measurements

[wlinart]

I got a pair V2 of them the last week check out as soon as possible these Alex capsules. Unfortunately I still haven't received the Beesneez I ordered, let alone an answer for weeks.. it does not start well with me... Since I'm currently building two identical 414EB's with Moby's Ü54 and really nice parts, two missing Toshibas 2SK30-O Fets, I could compare these two capsules (at least with my very modest euipment) reasonably well. I also have a newer C414 XL2 lying around to compare and tons of good preamps. My Austrian Audio X65 headphones don't actually lie either and at the end I want excellent sounding Mics....
But I have to say one thing about Alex capsules, they really look great. Wow. And at the price, you can't go too far wrong - about $120 pp. So I think it is a little bit overdrawn / overheated discussion about a new seller. And the contact? Very good, immediate response - unlike some others I never got an answer. 3U will also be soon at the start, I'm looking forward to it - he said next month or so ..., I personally appreciate 3U Parts, he is a really good guy...

Are these the version 2 of the ones available earlier? Weren't those way more expensive? I remember something like €350/piece

 

[kingkorg]

I got in a terrible mess with a broken car, and ER room. All is fine now but im pretty busy. Alex sent me two V2 capsules without me asking for them. They have most certainly addressed some issues, but there are still some remaining. Low end is pretty flat, it should be somewhat boosted. And there is a very sharp notch in rear diaphragm response both in first and this batch. There is some resonance issue.

 

[Khron]

I got in a terrible mess with a broken car, and ER room. All is fine now but im pretty busy.

Oh jeez, get well soon!

 

[Migs 31]

I got in a terrible mess with a broken car, and ER room. All is fine now but im pretty busy. Alex sent me two V2 capsules without me asking for them.

Oh Gush!
ER room ?!? I hope you are ok man...
Really sorry to hear that. Get well soon.
And take it easy, ok.

PS: F***k the C12 capsules.
They are NOT important after all.

M

 

[soliloqueen]

I got in a terrible mess with a broken car, and ER room. All is fine now but im pretty busy. Alex sent me two V2 capsules without me asking for them. They have most certainly addressed some issues, but there are still some remaining. Low end is flat, it should be somewhat boosted. And there is a very sharp notch in rear diaphragm response both in first and this batch. There is some resonance issue.

Hope you're okay!

 

[kingkorg]

All cool, just sudden inflammation, all good now, back to work with some antibiotics. Thanks for nice words!

 

[Tubetec]

Glad to hear your safe and sound Korg ,
May we learn lessons from the near misses in life ,

 

[kingkorg]

Here's the response of rear diaphragm, and it's 180°. There's some crazy sharp resonance at 8K coming from front diaphragm and it touches the level of the rear one out of phase which causes the sharp dip. It is present on all of these, and i have no idea what causes it. It is very unpleasant when it comes to sound coming off axis.

Great example why i don't trust smoothed measurements, once smoothing is applied the issue disappears.

 

[ubxf]

Here's the response of rear diaphragm, and it's 180°. There's some crazy sharp resonance at 8K coming from front diaphragm and it touches the level of the rear one out of phase which causes the sharp dip. It is present on all of these, and i have no idea what causes it. It is very unpleasant when it comes to sound coming off axis.

Great example why i don't trust smoothed measurements, once smoothing is applied the issue disappears.

Thank you for taking the time to do this. So it seems like it's a bust again. Get well soon

 

[soliloqueen]

Here's the response of rear diaphragm, and it's 180°. There's some crazy sharp resonance at 8K coming from front diaphragm and it touches the level of the rear one out of phase which causes the sharp dip. It is present on all of these, and i have no idea what causes it. It is very unpleasant when it comes to sound coming off axis.

Great example why i don't trust smoothed measurements, once smoothing is applied the issue disappears.

maybe they fixed the tension a bit, but the anatomy is still wrong

 

[Tim Campbell]

kingkorg so glad to hear that you are ok. Everyone please take good care.

 

[HerbertR]

I have measured Alex's V2 CK12 capsules very "amateurishly" with pink noise against a same leveled C414 TLII. This is not really a professional comparison, but it does show some characteristics. To what extent the EB circuit influences the frequency response here I can only say when I can compare my two identical DIY C414 builds with a reference capsule from Beesneez to those from Alex Xingde. My opinion and interpretation of the measurements:

- I also measure in omni mode with my simple arrangement especially at about 10kHz a deeper, narrow-band hole, probably caused by phase cancellation or resonance like kingkorg said. I was able to measure the same when changing the distance or rotation around the sound source... In single membrane/cardioid mode, this is not a problem and this dip does not appear. Basically, this is only audible to a very limited extent but the Omni pattern with this dip would really not be my first choice. The original AKG version doesn't do that at all, can be clearly seen on the pictures.
-I think the DIY version with Xingdes capsule sounds especially pretty with the slight boost at around 8kHz. If this boost is then toasted by Moby's Transformer it gets slightly brittle - just like I would expect from the old EB Variant, I really like this. This is something I miss with the new TLII. It is a clean mic and goes slightly emphaised onwards from 3kHz beyond 15kHz.. It's a pity that Alex's capsule breaks down much more strongly upper the 15kHz to than the AKG (too high capacitance of the capsule with over 100pF?, may also be through the different EB circuit ....?)
- low-mid frequency range - both sound very, very similar, they show the same frequency response - in the lateral frequency response of 90 degrees there are not any dips on cardioid and omni.
Basically not the worst capsules if used in cardioid, they dont sound cheap in my opinion... regards

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Hopefully the 3rd version will solve the issues. I can't see myself using a CK12 that's only good in cardioid. If I wanted to do that I'd grab a C3000 and take out the capacitor that boosts the high end.

 

[Migs 31]

-I think the DIY version with Xingdes capsule sounds especially pretty with the slight boost at around 8kHz. If this boost is then toasted by Moby's Transformer it gets slightly brittle - just like I would expect from the old EB Variant

Good morning,

Do you have any recorded audio that you can share? Either post here or PM me.
I would like to HEAR how "pretty" or significant that 8-10KHz boost/dip really is.
Specially in Omni or Fig. Eight. Can I even hear it with a "naked ear"!?!

Following the same route as you, VAMI V414 & Chinese CK12, not finished yet.
Great work by the way, thanks for sharing your measurements.

M

 

[paulcheeba]

There wasn’t much of a difference between the v1 and v2. Neither sound anything like an AKG brass ring of any era. There is no bass or warmth and the smooth sweet high end is missing. It’s gonna take a while before they get near Haun or Beesneez quality.

 

[kingkorg]

There wasn’t much of a difference between the v1 and v2. Neither sound anything like an AKG brass ring of any era. There is no bass or warmth and the smooth sweet high end is missing. It’s gonna take a while before they get near Haun or Beesneez quality.

There should be significant difference, even though not very good the v2 i got is at least useable. Are you talking about the replacement you got? Could it be they sent just the same stuff again. You can check the capacitance, v1 had about 100pf, v2 had between 70-80pf. At least that is the case with the ones i received. But yes, if you are after real CK12 sound, none of these are right.

 

[HerbertR]

Good morning,

Do you have any recorded audio that you can share? Either post here or PM me.
I would like to HEAR how "pretty" or significant that 8-10KHz boost/dip really is.
Specially in Omni or Fig. Eight. Can I even hear it with a "naked ear"!?!

Following the same route as you, VAMI V414 & Chinese CK12, not finished yet.
Great work by the way, thanks for sharing your measurements.

M

I received my order of Beeznees C12 capsules from Australia. I tested a Xinde C12 V2 capsule in parallel against the Beesneez C12, recorded both microphones L/R in a stereo file and separated them back into mono after recording. I used my two "very same" C414 EB builds with Moby's Ü54 and AML1073 500 Pres, without pop filters or anything like that...

Xingde is imo clearly harder, more mids, less highs... Beesneez is much smoother, rounder, more deep, super balance, highs..... worth every penny....
I did some Vocal recordings. But my "Austrian Bavarian Farmer-English" Dialect is so bad that I dont want to share them here.... The files clearly show the difference... I can send them on request..

 

[kingkorg]

I received my order of Beeznees C12 capsules from Australia. I tested a Xinde C12 V2 capsule in parallel against the Beesneez C12, recorded both microphones L/R in a stereo file and separated them back into mono after recording. I used my two "very same" C414 EB builds with Moby's Ü54 and AML1073 500 Pres, without pop filters or anything like that...

Xingde is imo clearly harder, more mids, less highs... Beesneez is much smoother, rounder, more deep, super balance, highs..... worth every penny....
I did some Vocal recordings. But my "Austrian Bavarian Farmer-English" Dialect is so bad that I dont want to share them here.... The files clearly show the difference... I can send them on request..

I have to admit, the way Beeznees packs those ck12 is truly ingenious.

 

[mrgrooves666]

Ingenious and practical!, ready to go basically!

 

[McIrish]

Are you sure the ones in the plastic containers are Ben's? Those don't look like the pedistals he uses. The other ones look more like his. I could be wrong. The last one I got from him cam in a brass tube.