Piano mics on a budget

[k brown]

Are you sure the Avantone CK-1 is the same mic as the CM-63? Comparing the switch locations and tapered tail, it looks more like an Alctron T02A to me, which is most likely nothing else but a Shuai Yin SYC90S. Alibaba link below. They have 22mm bodies, which fit the 3U capsules.

https://x.alibaba.com/Ax2Znj?ck=pdp

Jan

Same as CM-60, not '63.

Avantone has an added pad switch, so boards are different (actual circuit similarity, I don't know; they do mention styrene caps, which the Takstars don't have), but bodies and capsules the same.

Perhaps more accurate to say the Avantones are built on the Takstar 'platform'?

 

[kags]

I am told that Elton John would sometimes record (not just play live) with two boundary mics (Crown PZM's) taped to the lid, above the hammers. I've done it and it's a very present sound that comes through in a mix. Plus, you get to close the lid and eliminate feedback issues. Behringer makes a boundary mic called the BA 19A. They list for $79. I happen to have purchased two of them yesterday for $29.99 on "TODAYS DEAL". Here's where I got them:
https://www.newsalestore.com/en/?s=BEHRINGER+MICROPHONES&post_type=product
I don't know yet if it's a ruse, but at the price it was worth a shot.

Also, they have some side address LDC's that look like they'd make reasonable donor mics for DIY projects.

I had the pleasure of working with Elton John around 2010. A friend of mine (who is a very successful keyboard player and producer) is obsessed with Elton, so I asked about his setup for the Red Piano show and his recordings. For the Red Piano show, he said they used two DPA 4061s and possibly something else for backup (he wasn't sure about the backup system). He played a Yamaha CFX that he thought was the 9-footer. When I recorded him, we also used a Yamaha CFX, and (at his request) I used a pair of U87s on the piano. His vocals for that session were recorded with a Cathedral Pipes Notre Dame.

My buddy bought a pair of DPA 4061s after that conversation and I like the mics, but never got enough low end from the piano with just the two of them, so I supplement it with an 87 or m149 over the low strings, mixed in very low.

 

[kags]

I am told that Elton John would sometimes record (not just play live) with two boundary mics (Crown PZM's) taped to the lid, above the hammers. I've done it and it's a very present sound that comes through in a mix. Plus, you get to close the lid and eliminate feedback issues. Behringer makes a boundary mic called the BA 19A. They list for $79. I happen to have purchased two of them yesterday for $29.99 on "TODAYS DEAL". Here's where I got them:
https://www.newsalestore.com/en/?s=BEHRINGER+MICROPHONES&post_type=product
I don't know yet if it's a ruse, but at the price it was worth a shot.

Also, they have some side address LDC's that look like they'd make reasonable donor mics for DIY projects.

Behringer includes that boundary mic in their drumkit combo, so they are going after the Shure Beta 91a, which sell for slightly over the $30 you paid!

 

[ubxf]

I have a CFIII with a couple of DPA 4011 and it sounds pretty good, if I need to keep the lid closed I've been using the Barcus Berry planar 4000 and it doesn't sound too bad.

 

[hkung]

It's worth mentioning that any mics based on the Primo EM272 are quite inferior to any using the EM273, because the 272 has the FET source internally tied to ground, rendering it impossible to bias it optimally.

Even mics based on the 3-terminal EM273 won't sound as good as the Line Audio CM4, as they do extensive culling and do modifications to the capsule itself that greatly increases it's performance. This has been verified by @kingkorg who has dug into them and found that no simple DIY mods can get the little Primos to sound as good as the CM4.

This is, of course, also true of the Line Audio CM4 which uses the Primo EM200.

Yeah I have to agree, the Line Audio OM1 is an amazing mic (especially for the price). Just doublechecking: Did you mean the OM1 is EM273 and CM4 is EM200? Or did I miss something here

 

[k brown]

Yeah I have to agree, the Line Audio OM1 is an amazing mic (especially for the price). Just doublechecking: Did you mean the OM1 is EM273 and CM4 is EM200? Or did I miss something here

(It's now called the Omni1) - Yes, but as said before, extensively culled and modified.

I realize I wasn't clear in my previous post that seemed to suggest the CM4 had the EM273 in it; no that's the Omni1. Like you said, CM4 uses the EM200.

 

[thelivingroom]

I've been using my Beyerdynamic MC930s in ORTF quite a bit in the well of Pianos on short stick and like them quite a bit. Obviously taste differs, but I can't really complain about this sound. Obviously if you're wanting more attack, maybe the position is not the best.

Is Short the choice because there's vocal at the same time?

I know they’re out of the price range for this, but I also love my MC930’s on piano. Fantastic mics in general.

 

[thelivingroom]

I’ll add the Avenson STO-2 to the mix. $550 per pair, and they sound very natural. Can be a tad noisy if they’re on a quieter source, but I’ve used them on piano a bunch with no problems.

 

[Piedmont Audio]

sE 8's are the best I've heard in this price range!

 

[sr1200]

A little over budget, I use a pair of roswell miniK47s on our baby grand.

Recently, i was doing a video of odd/effect mics and found a surprisingly good sounding setup for REALLY cheap ($100/mic) The Audio Technica Pro42 is a TINY boundary style mic that i was able to fit UNDER the strings of the piano. Were also able to stick the mics under the soundboard for a darker, more upright sound.

 

[RCAguy]

Also a pianist for 60+yr, I’ve tried about every way to mic a piano. Not quite good enough for me are wide-spaced omni's that have notes jumping around, or ORTF with factory cardioids placed farther than 30cm (12in) roll off below ~200Hz, without LF compensation attenuating fundamentals below middle C4.

I’ve settled on one way for concert recording and another for PA or spot. For either, I prefer the fuller sound across the board of some distance, where this second largest acoustic instrument’s sound has become integrated with itself and the acoustic space it’s in, especially lid-up. For spot micing, I don’t get so close as to emphasize narrow ranges and action noise: two close-spaced PZMs (Sonotrim or equiv.) attached under the lid.

For piano solos in concert halls, I position the main (haupt) mic pair or surround array at the critical radius from the conductor, but in the plane of the piano lid to avoid unnatural comb filtering. No added spot is needed.

 

[wafelki]

1. sE Electronics SE8 - nice balance, quite flat and precise, nice bass from far away, great build quality
2. MB Haun - all are great mics, very musical, organic sound, soft rounded highs, never harsh
3. Superlux S241 - ridiculously great price/performance ratio, stock are bright though (KM184'ish...), upgrading the input cap is very helpful, good for transformer preamps like GAP73
4. Austrian Audio CC8 - great capsules made in Austria by the best AKG engineers, quiet, flat, clean. A bit "stiffer" but more detail than Haun.

What preamp will he use?

 

[soulsonic]

I absolutely agree with the previous posts recommending the sE8. Right in your price range and a fantastic pair of mics. The pair I have satisfy any desire I had for a pair of KM184s. I use them regularly with a Zoom F3 for my go-to mobile stereo rig and the end results are on par with any serious gear out there. Only thing I've liked better so far has been a pair of AKG 414s with the F3 - and that's what you have to go to if you really want to kick it to the next level, but the sE8s are still so good that most people wouldn't miss that little extra extra you'd get with the 414s. I've also used KM184s with the F3, but they honestly didn't bring anything extra magical to the recording the way the 414s did.
This is my experience recording acoustic performances of jazz, classical, percussion, etc...

 

[kags]

What preamp will he use?

All good suggestions!

For archiving, the pianist will record with his Scarlett Gen 3 interface. For the productions, we will be using either an Avid MBOX Studio or a Sound Devices MixPre—both of which have excellent (transformerless) mic preamps. The mic preamp choice really depends more on workflow, since this will be an ongoing recording/filming project. We will be able to leave the mic setup, but the recording equipment will be set up and torn down weekly for each shoot.