Soliloqueen's k87(k67) and k47 capsules

[Mr. Moscode]

I first realised this many years ago....
I live in a small(ish) seaside resort on the south coast of the UK. By a quirk of fate the 'town band' - first created over 100 years ago - has turned into a world class orchestra - the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra
I have had the chance to hear the orchestra on many occasions over the years, in varous local venues.

What I can categorically state is that the Orchestra - live - sounds nothing like any recorded version of any of their music . Same for any orchestra.
The best microphones, the best mixers and audio recorders do not even come close to reproducing all the aspects of sound that make a live concert so special..... The 3 dimensional sound space, the subtle interactions at ultrasonic frequencies, the totally uncompressed dynamic range ... the list goes on.
Here we are discussing the benefits - or otherwise - of artificial nuances in electronic items that can only make a falry crude stab at capturing the subtleties of the real acoustic world...... Even the very best don't really come that close.

Good fun experimenting though !

I had the same experience at the RCA studios in NYC when Chesky records did the next to last recording in that space. We were recording the Red Rodney quintet. When I walked out of the studio into the control room while they were rehearsing I thought if we get 10% of that on record we're lucky. That doesn't mean the recording wasn't enjoyable, but that an eye (ear) opener.

When the studio closed all the history went with it - I have somewhere Arturo Toscanini - Beethoven's 9 Symphonies recorded there. Broke my heart. Now the IRS has that space.

 

[Drea]

Despite their poor hf reponse, the Melodium's 42b have the most impressive 3d "effect" of all the other mics in my locker (i have some).

I have a pair too but a good U47 with v14 crushed the 42b in 3D especially in the low . 42b got fast surely big bass I admit, Pretty good response (in the high not that great) “ proximity fx“. Most miks get fast boomy like sm7b. U47 never get boomy.

 

[garp]

Arienne's flat 47 in my U47 fet clone on Rolando Luna's Steinway ! On tour in the greatest Jazz festivals in Europe . Rolando Luna is one of the greatest cuban pianists in 2024

 

[micolas]

Arienne's flat 47 in my U47 fet on Rolando Luna's Steinway ! On tour in the greatest Jazz festivals in Europe . Rolando Luna is one of the greatest cuban pianists in 2024

Congratulations to you
and @soliloqueen !!!
We are waiting for some sound samples

 

[garp]

There surely will be a lot of live youtube videos ...

 

[micolas]

There will be a lot of live youtube videos ...

ok, looking forward to the links

 

[garp]

We are waiting for some sound samples

The U47 fet is used in conjunction of two bumblebee ribbon mic that's the way Rolando's sound is captured .

 

[micolas]

The U47 fet is used in conjunction of two bumblebee ribbon mic that's the way Rolando's sound is captured .

Is it placed to capture sound from the hole?

 

[garp]

U47 fet is cardioid only This placement in the hole is a "classic" trick i learned from skilled producer long time ago and that made enthousiasts amongst my sound ingeneer friends.

 

[soapfoot]

Arienne's flat 47 in my U47 fet clone on Rolando Luna's Steinway ! On tour in the greatest Jazz festivals in Europe . Rolando Luna is one of the greatest cuban pianists in 2024

Will you be at North Sea and Montreux? I’ll be at both

 

[micolas]

U47 fet is cardioid only This placement in the hole is a "classic" trick i learned from skilled producer long time ago and that made enthousiasts amongst my sound ingeneer friends.

It captures the inner resonance of the wood.
By combining the microphones, a credible, real sound is obtained.
(As in the case of a kick-drum when several microphones are used and U47fet is located in the hole)

 

[garp]

My U47 will be at North Sea festival behind Chucho's VALDÉS piano with IRAKERE 50 , and also Jazz a Vienne and Marciac with El Comité and Chucho ( 18 concerts this summer)

 

[soapfoot]

Nice!

Side note: some of the best live sound I've ever experienced was when I played at the Théâtre Antique for Jazz a Vienne

I didn't get to meet the professionals who were working that day, but I was very impressed. Do you work there often?

 

[garp]

Antique outdoor theaters are a breeze to work, and we also have a lot of wonderfull halls with great acoustics in Europe. In the last years PA systems have known huge improvements and mutations, all of these facts leading to a better listening experience and better workflow for ingeneers and musicians.

 

[Emmathom]

U47 fet is cardioid only This placement in the hole is a "classic" trick i learned from skilled producer long time ago and that made enthousiasts amongst my sound ingeneer friends.

Hi @garp ! how do you mix the U47 "in the "hole" with the stereo couple ? (ribbon or static or whatever...)
Do you specify a frenquency range for it ? (like a low-pass) Is it placed at center in the mix ?
Tell us more please ! (I have a quatuor in a small church to record in a month > piano / cello / violin / alto)

 

[garp]

Yes it is placed in the middle, full band, the slight angle is there to balance lows and medium frequencies.

 

[Emmathom]

Yes it is placed in the middle, full band, the slight angle is there to balance lows and medium frequencies.

Thank you !

 

[jeremynothman]

Hi @garp ! how do you mix the U47 "in the "hole" with the stereo couple ? (ribbon or static or whatever...)
Do you specify a frenquency range for it ? (like a low-pass) Is it placed at center in the mix ?
Tell us more please ! (I have a quatuor in a small church to record in a month > piano / cello / violin / alto)

I don't necessarily use the same approach for classical stuff as I do for jazz, but obviously everyone has their own style. I would tend to lean more on the main pair/pairs for classical, to capture more of the in-room balance.

For piano, for both jazz and classical, I tend to find ORTF or LCR from the well of the piano (potentially with the C slightly forward) good, but probably mic'd a bit more distantly for classical. Alternatively, the Decca standard was a closely-spaced (say 20-30cm) AB (omni) pair right down at the tail of the piano facing in the direction of the performer.

Sorry for the derail!

@garp , is this technique also essentially to add some transient that goes a bit missing with the ribbons? I've mostly only seen people shoving a 57 or similar in the hole!

 

[garp]

This is a live stage solution, i don't claim this is the only way to do ! Depending on genre and room i often go for different mic arrangement and choices. (u67 M49 Elam 251 are my favorite) but i also employed trusty M160 beyer for that purpose. On the very last end of the movie "Maigret" with Depardieu i recorded the cuban track with a single U67 on upright Yamaha piano, there is no rule .