The Ultimate Analogue Desk

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Brian Roth said:
"If I was king of the forest......"

hah, yeah the various ways of moving forward with this project tend get a little far out on the plank.  i feel like that's almost by necessity for those whose budget is on a diet.  that amek desk is pretty wild, in another life i'll be independently wealthy and grab one!  ;D  the amount of ribbon and power cable is pretty staggering even for a console.
 
Well, some folks keep after me as in "will you build a desk again??"

No...or..probably not  <g>.

I am into this discussion because...maybe?  lol

I will keep the discussion running on one topic....the sum buses.  I vote for "bucket summing".

Bri



 
No one better than Bri to add something to the "making your own desk" thread, for all of those that dont know, Brian here made his own large format desk when he was 23 years old, and the console is still running in some studio, more about it Bri? perhaps you could share some thoughts on what the complications you had to go through to make it, and thats without counting all the automation this guy wants to add to his console.....

Nice to see you Bri, when is that Amek monster coming down here?
 
user 37518 said:
No one better than Bri to add something to the "making your own desk" thread, for all of those that dont know, Brian here made his own large format desk when he was 23 years old, and the console is still running in some studio, more about it Bri? perhaps you could share some thoughts on what the complications you had to go through to make it, and thats without counting all the automation this guy wants to add to his console.....

Nice to see you Bri, when is that Amek monster coming down here?

Good to be back here!  The Amek desk is apparently awaiting some studio construction before it can be installed (and to think that I "scrambled" and paid extra for an expedited passport a couple months ago!).

One "gotcha" with the desk I designed turned up several years after installation, and that was "frame sag".  In spite of all the square steel tubing the mechanical designer included in the frame, there was a minute bit of sag in the middle, making module connections troublesome.  But, I was in "good company", since the Neve 8068 desks from that same era had the same problem and had to be retrofitted with some additional bracing.

In hindsight, I would have added an additional pedestal under the center of the frame.

Best,

Bri

 
so cooooooooooooooool desk
also pre eq and comp modules are still good stuffs!

sorry mr brian
unfortunately i don't know you
but from that i read here
have you in the past built a console?

peace

 
Perhaps mundane, but little things like mechanical design matter. Those edge connectors were always a PIA and involved expensive gold plating on the PCB, and good alignment. Troubleshooting 101= reseat all the edge connectors. I was happy to change to ribbon cable for the busing and power distribution, but ribbon cables have their own ways to bite you. Especially if you use enough of them, for long enough.  :mad:  Luckily most of my ribbon cable issues were caught early and managed. Some other console makers weren't so lucky, but they were probably purchasing ribbon cables and not rolling their own.

Shipping is always a special treat with big dog consoles... For some reason truckers always thought it was clever to cut the steel bands holding them to the pallets and stand them up on end, to save space in their trailer. We ended up building a crate around each console to discourage standing them up, and to support plenty of weight stacked on top.  In my last large one we used a (relatively) light weight but strong and rigid frame structure that was similar to aircraft wings with two flat sheet metal plates (basically in tension) riveted to struts between them. This proved remarkably rigid for it's weight, but there were always a few customers who managed to trash them by dropping from some height on end.

FWIW it might be interesting for folks to see the inside. Most one off consoles I've seen involved entirely too much point to point wiring. I am more interested in unique routing architecture or features. One of the guys I knew who built his own console for his recording studio, put 7 band graphic EQs (with short slide pots) in every channel, which was great for how he worked. He did a lot of advertising work so he needed to dial in the EQ and start mixing quickly. Another unique feature (I designed the circuitry for, but was his idea) was a mute group facility that also operated as a solo in place, from the alternate "mute everything but the selected channels". In the mute master section we used 3 position switches for either off, mute entire group, or solo entire group. The group solo, command, would over-ride a group mute command, so you could combine groups for mute or solo and and get what you expected. He used that a lot to mix reggae tracks, and he was able to clean up percussive mixes that normally can get noisy and sloppy with multi-tracking and lots of channels. 

Looking back I don't remember any guys who built DIY consoles (of which I know a few), who repeated that experience and built a second one. It was mostly a one and done experience, due to the personal time investment involved. Also with the commercial designs I am aware of, I don't know any(?) that were perfect the very first cut. I wouldn't mind revisiting some of my old designs, but thats life as an engineer. In fact when I worked in engineering management it was part of my job, to get the designers to release their babies, to the cruel reality of production, while I appreciate the desire to tweak things forever. 

JR
 
John, you "nailed it" re doing a one-off.  I think I used up more than a few of  my "cat's nine lives" back in 1977.....

Nevertheless.....it was a wonderful experience that I will always remember  lol.  I just won't be as over-optimistic as I once was, should I "get the bug" to build another desk.

At the same time, I am more than happy to toss in  Two Cents Worth in case someone else decides to wander into desk building.

John, I an intrigued about the frame design you mentioned......

Best,

Bri





 
:eek:  WOW ...
brian
so porn desk
many compliments about !

some kind of automation on that desk ?
peace

Brian Roth said:
Yes   I did:

http://www.brianroth.com/projects/m77/m77.html

Bri
 
Brian Roth said:
John, you "nailed it" re doing a one-off.  I think I used up more than a few of  my "cat's nine lives" back in 1977.....

Nevertheless.....it was a wonderful experience that I will always remember   lol.  I just won't be as over-optimistic as I once was, should I "get the bug" to build another desk.

At the same time, I am more than happy to toss in  Two Cents Worth in case someone else decides to wander into desk building.

John, I an intrigued about the frame design you mentioned......

Best,

Bri

The frame wasn't my design, but the concept is apparently well known to mechanical designers, to deliver light weight yet rigid structures. like aircraft wings, and even some race cars where the the body skin is also structural, to save weight (consumer automobiles also use a variant on this for several decades). The magic is that a single piece of sheet metal may seem flimsy, but is very strong in tension (resists being pulled apart lengthwise). So connecting two sheets together, such that for one to crumple or bend in, the other must tear apart, creates a relatively strong structure in useful directions.

In the consoles it was basically two large flat pieces of sheet metal, riveted to a number of internal struts, that spaced the two sheets about 3/4" apart. This was adequately rigid to support a few hundred pounds of console guts, and end bells and meter bridge without adding a lot of it's own weight.

JR
 
John, I guess the frame design you described is vaguely similar to what Neve used in the 8068 and similar desks, and ADM used in their broadcast desks.  However, in those, the manufacturer used a multiplicity of aluminum extrusion "ribs" to tie together aluminum plates (which had the general shape of the desk's side profile).  In the case of the Neve, each section held 12 modules.

Here are some pix of how ADM designed their frame, which seemed quite rigid.

http://www.brianroth.com/pix/adm/

FWIW, I "stood between the doorway the the dumpster" <g> at KWTV (the local CBS affiliate) after they retired the desk a few years ago.

Best,

Bri

 
Brian Roth said:
John, I guess the frame design you described is vaguely similar to what Neve used in the 8068 and similar desks, and ADM used in their broadcast desks.  However, in those, the manufacturer used a multiplicity of aluminum extrusion "ribs" to tie together aluminum plates (which had the general shape of the desk's side profile).  In the case of the Neve, each section held 12 modules.

Here are some pix of how ADM designed their frame, which seemed quite rigid.

http://www.brianroth.com/pix/adm/

FWIW, I "stood between the doorway the the dumpster" <g> at KWTV (the local CBS affiliate) after they retired the desk a few years ago.

Best,

Bri

Nice pictures but no, not similar. The structure I was trying to describe ended up a flat 3/4" thick rigid slab that served as a foundation or base that the console built up from. Those pictures look like conventional frame parts bent into U shapes where the module faceplates were the 4th structural member to complete the parallelogram, but that shape can be distorted with enough force, so they used thicker metal and were probably pretty heavy, I would guess.  More than one way to skin the cat...

JR
 
Wow. Yes i have been away... I was called to duty and my focus had to shift to that. I am back and given the time that has passed since i last looked at the topic. I have to "refresh" my mind abit. In short i have not given up, just delayed....

I will be going through all the posts to sorta catch up. Thanks to those who have kept this thread alive.

Joel
 
Welcome back, Joel!  I had been away from the DIY forum for several years due to a busy work load...and just "falling out of the habit" in more recent times.

One of the first threads I spotted last week was this one, and I had to read through it all before I began tossing in my 2 Cents.

Best,

Bri

 
hey Bryan

what you think about new t-o-n-e l-u-x
console?

peace

Brian Roth said:
Welcome back, Joel!  I had been away from the DIY forum for several years due to a busy work load...and just "falling out of the habit" in more recent times.

One of the first threads I spotted last week was this one, and I had to read through it all before I began tossing in my 2 Cents.

Best,

Bri
 

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