The Ultimate Analogue Desk

[Brian Roth]

OK  I thought about this....

I vote for moving faders.

Bri

 

[mjk]

... Having every other setting on every channel (aux sends, etc) available at my fingertips seems a bit overkill...hence a "super channel" makes sense.  Otari did that with channel switching/routing on the Concept-One desks.

I'm commissioning an Otari Concept desk now and I'm impressed.

The Concept 1 and Concept Elite have a nice architecture; dual paths with both fader flip and input swap. There is a single channel insert routable through the super channel. The super channel is great for routing as used on the C1/CE and enables amazing flexibility, but I wouldn't want it for settings. They did put the surround panners in the super channel but I don't use those anyway  :

 

[Brian Roth]

Yes, the Otari Concept-One was a very interesting desk.  I installed one at a local studio in the early-mid 1990's, and removed it from service last spring.  It has since been sold to another studio and I'm in the process of getting it reinstalled.  However, this desk has the VCA faders vs. the motorized faders.

A bunch of snapshots here as I "gutted and rebuilt" the studio last year.  The "early days" in the pix sequence show the Concept just before it was removed, then stored in a warehouse space at the studio:

http://www.brianroth.com/projects/gv2010/

So far, no pix yet showing its "New Home".

Best,

Bri

 

[mjk]

My Concept Elite came in a strange configuration of the short frame (190 cm) with a 1/2 width rack bay holding only a funky graphic EQ. Also had a raft of blank covers on the right side. No patchbay. It has line level inputs (no micpres) and 24 mono input modules with motorized faders.

http://electrolyre.com/webpics/ce-before.jpg

I'm removing the 1/2 rack bay and putting the digital master (super channel) and analog master strips next to the input strips.

"Highway 61 Revisited" on the TT...

http://electrolyre.com/webpics/ce-inprogress.jpg

I still need to remove the blank panel in the meterbridge and move the master meters over to the left.

http://electrolyre.com/webpics/ce-master.jpg

With this done there will be room for a full width rack bay on the right in which I plan to install a full size 1/4" TRS patchbay and the controller for the Otari RADAR 24.

Cheers,

Michael

 

[Gettestudios]

I am back... LOL yeah delay after delay, its more about life getting in the way. I am now in a position to be able to dedicate allot of time and other resources to the project. I hope that up to this point, if anything this thread has left those who have read it, with moments of inspiration and laughter. Call me a fool, but my design concept has not changed much, channels count may come down to 60 (with future expansion) bus count down to 24 (no one ever uses more) Aux count is still at 16 (or 8 stereo) still digitally controlled. Each Channel has allot more in it though... Will keep that to myself for now. Have done allot of studying over the years and have found that all the advise of staying away from even starting is very well merited as well as cost estimates. I still want to do this. i will start with the first 12 ch block and master section and work out from there... Let the adventure begin and lets see were it goes and were it ends... 

 

[Brian Roth]

Hey there Joel!  I had forgotten about this thread from two years ago.

Bri

 

[Gettestudios]

Hello Bri, yeah it was left in the shadows there for a while but not forgotten,,,

 

[Brian Roth]

Well, since the original thread, I reinstalled that huge Amek 9098 desk into its new home in Mexico City.  I had a chance to revisit all of the automation stuff while doing a 100% "stem to stern" verification of all functions.

http://brianroth.com/pix/gilberto/

Keep in mind, like a SSL desk, the 9098 had only Recall for all the rotary pot functions (the slidewire faders are motorized). 

More than a few large desks have moved in and out of my "radar" the past two years since this thread began, and dammit..I still find/learn something new all the time...LOL!

Bri

 

[Gettestudios]

the 9098 is a very nice desk, would love to gaze over the service manual of one. I am currently actively looking for Neve VX(s)/VR, SSL 9000/4000 and the Euphonix CS2000/3000 schematics. But they are hard to find, unless of course you own one.

anyway, I will be using a mixture of encoders and motorized faders in my design and some form of Digi-pot, PGA, and VCA depending on application. For now, I am focused on the analogue side of things, get that right then move over to control, were i have a pretty heavy burden of functions i want to implement.

So,,, Have any schematics of said previously stated consoles that you are willing to share?  ;D

Joel

 

[Fenris]

Gentlemen,

I admit to being "off-line" from this forum for many months (perhaps a year or three?) due to work (designing/installing hi-def video facliities....The Dark Side!  lol) and other projects/reasons.  I stumbled across this thread, and saw a reference/link early in the thread to the Stupid Things A Youngster Might Do <G!>:

http://www.brianroth.com/projects/m77/m77.html

I remember you telling the story on Gearslutz. Didn't it take you about 2000 man-hours to build it? I frequently tell the youngsters about the guy who single-handedly built a console from scratch at age 23, which is still in service today. It helped me work up the nerve to tackle a major modification project on our Wheatstone console.

 

[boji]

I thought I'd mention Brian's experience fuels my ambition as well. I'm having a tough time moving over from my framework into the channels themselves.

I keep finding reasons to do other stuff, like, um, make music. 

I've said it before-- I would never have tried this were it not for the awesome people here at prodigy/gdiy.

Brian, what inspiration did you have at 23?
No internet to help you along back then! 

 

[Fenris]

Well, since the original thread, I reinstalled that huge Amek 9098 desk into its new home in Mexico City.

Hey Brian, I'm love to hear your thoughts on the 9098 design. What type of IC's and what voltages is it using? I know it's full of transformers. I've read that it runs cooler than most desks and needs less re-capping, is this true?

I ask because the Wheatstone is a good platform for mods and I wonder how close I can get to the sound of a "money" desk by upgrading/bypassing key parts of the circuit. I'm going to be using it for a long, long time.

 

[user 37518]

I know Brian personally, and let me tell you he is even cooler in person  8)

 

[Brian Roth]

Thanks for all the interest, and kindly remarks.  I did have some assistance putting the monster together, like 2 other folks stuffing PCBs at various points, and another guy who helped me with the frame and patchbay wiring.  I really have no recollection of how many man-hours went into the desk, however.

Bri

 

[Brian Roth]

As for the 9098 desk "family", there were two different models.

The first one was called just 9098 and was a split console.  The left side had the inputs with preamps, while the right side was the monitoring section.  The monitor modules each handled two line channels.  The info I have dates this to around 1994.

The second version had monitoring inline on each channel strip and was called the 9098i.  Info I have shows a 1999 date.

The 9098 used OP275 opamps for many positions, with NE5534 and 5532 chips in quite a few positions.  That desk used through-hole components.  The 9098i used MC33078 chips with only a few OP275 chips left, and again with a bunch of 5532/5534 chips in certain locations.  It is primarily surface mount construction.

Both desks used +/- 17.5 VDC rails from a bunch of large/heavy PSU boxes.

Bri

 

[Fenris]

Wow, I had no idea the 9098i was surface mount. "Slipperman" has spoken very highly of its reliability and sound.

 

[Brian Roth]

The 9098i has both surface mount and through hole components.  Next time I'm at that studio, I'll take a look to refresh my memory about the ratio between the two types of components.

Both it and the earlier 9098 can be power hogs if they are as large as the two I've worked on.

Bri

 

[user 37518]

The 9098i has both surface mount and through hole components.  Next time I'm at that studio, I'll take a look to refresh my memory about the ratio between the two types of components.

Both it and the earlier 9098 can be power hogs if they are as large as the two I've worked on.

Bri

And also, next time you are at that studio, dont forget to give me a call!

 

[Gettestudios]

We'll again more changes,,,, a Amek M3000 has arrived and will be heavily modified to include total redesigned channels and infrastructure.

for more detailed info and a run down along with progress, go here.

http://www.proaudiodesignforum.com/forum/php/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=578

feel it is easiest to keep it to one location.

have great weekend!

Joel

 

[SSLtech]

Wow... an M3000!

I used to service the FIRST M300 ever built, and have some fond memries...

Tell me, Do you still have the modules? -Would you part with a couple?

Links to a page with a couple of photos of the M3000:

http://www.philsbook.com/amazon.htm