The Vaccine

[JohnRoberts]

Seat belts, air bags, ABS brakes... yadda yadda... We tend to apply technology to reduce avoidable deaths while we can't make them all go away. The curves are not smooth because some idiots take even more risks after safety mechanisms are in place.

I have been waiting for automobile insurance to become obsolete when we all use self driving cars.

JR

[edit- ABS brakes saved my front end... a few years ago some bubba ran a red light in front of me. I crushed the brakes, and cut the wheel hard right to avoid the collision. Without ABS my front wheels would have locked up and I would have skidded straight into the pickup truck's path... The ABS cycled the brakes so that I didn't lose steering traction and safely veered right to avoid the collision. I love modern technology, at least this technology. /edit]

 

[Matador]

Wait.. Now we're comparing a Covid shot to seatbelts? LMFAO

 

[shabtek]

...some idiots take even more risks after safety mechanisms are in place.

that may explain more than we know

I have been waiting for automobile insurance to become obsolete when we all use self driving cars.

nnnnNo.




a compulsory injection with something that has 30 months of safety data is not the same a mandatory vehicle restraint, seatbelts don't have potential blood clots or heart issues

 

[MicDaddy]

A *waning after ~6mo (as relates to measurable antibodies, NOT at preventing infection or transmission) shot... that isn't effective at all (admitted so by Pfizer CEO) against latter variants...

happy chase the notDeadly (statistically again, see 2020 for alpha and see South Afrika (and the US ) for Oµ) variant game with fiat boosters everyone

 

[JohnRoberts]

The Moderna Covid vaccine is now fully approved for 18yo and older....

JR

 

[MicDaddy]

Pfizer to ask for approval for children...

quick someone use some actual numbers from 2020,2021 and running and show me cost/benefit of vaccinating children?

If you're ceding that they only help you maybe not die (do they?) then why would you target a cohort that isn't susceptible to dying?

what upside : what newly introduced uncertain downside?

 

[Matador]

then why would you target a cohort that isn't susceptible to dying?

Because those children have parents? Grandparents? Teachers and school staff? Caregivers who are caring for potentially others who might be at risk? Extended family? That nice old lady in the grocery store who likes to pinch their cheeks while waiting in line? Potentially hundreds of other people, who have unknown risk profiles, that those children routinely interact with? That even if the child doesn't have significant negative effects, perhaps these other people might (I link a study below that shows this directly)?

I still don't understand where this person-centric view of society comes from: that somehow, the risk for everyone living around me is completely separate from my own actions, and everyone else's collective risk is a scaled-up version of my own personal risk. Unless we live under a rock in the middle of a forest, we are all the combined risk of everyone we come in contact with.

Finally getting a first wave of data regarding boosters and Omicron, to combat the "vaccines only prevent death" narrative that just doesn't seem to want to go away:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.27.21268278v1.full-text

we show that fully vaccinated and booster-vaccinated individuals are generally less susceptible to infection compared to unvaccinated individuals (Table 2). We also show that booster-vaccinated individuals generally had a reduced transmissibility (OR: 0.72, CI: 0.56-0.92), and that unvaccinated individuals had a higher transmissibility (OR: 1.41, CI: 1.27-1.57), compared to fully vaccinated individuals....

both a primary series and a booster dose is likely to play an important role in reducing transmission on a short term and modifying the outcome of infection by reducing severity. We were unable to address this question as detailed clinical data were not available in our registries, and in any case the relatively short follow-up time precludes a thorough investigation of any subsequent hospitalisations and deaths...
(1) note that the existing circulating immunity within a country is of major importance in limiting the severity of the epidemic with the Omicron VOC. We found that booster-vaccinated individuals in Omicron VOC households had an OR of 0.54 (CI: 0.40-0.71) compared to fully vaccinated individuals (Table 2). This shows that booster vaccination is effective for reducing household transmission of the Omicron VOC.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788105

The incidence of SARS-CoV-2 was 116 per 100 000 person-days prior to booster vaccination and 12.8 per 100 000 after booster vaccination, for an estimated relative reduction of 93% (hazard ratio, 0.07 [95% CI, 0.02-0.2])....The booster vaccine doses reduced equally the risk of symptomatic and asymptomatic infection. In a post hoc analysis, the authors noted an association between lower result on commercial anti–S1-RBD IgG titer at baseline and higher risk of infection. In a multivariable Cox regression, low baseline anti–S1-RBD IgG, earlier receipt of the initial vaccine, higher number of PCR tests, and having more children also were significantly associated with SARS-CoV-2 infection.

Bolded-underlined part mine: there was a high statistical correlation between infection rate and households with multiple children. As in, those children were likely passing the infection to their families (because duh). Many of those children were younger than the current age cutoff for vaccines.

And another one from Isreal:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788104

Among health care workers at a single center in Israel who were previously vaccinated with a 2-dose series of BNT162b2, administration of a booster dose compared with not receiving one was associated with a significantly lower rate of SARS-CoV-2 infection over a median of 39 days of follow-up. Ongoing surveillance is required to assess durability of the findings.

 

[MicDaddy]

Because those children have parents? ...

This propaganda needs to stop. While vaccines do not prevent infection nor transmission there is a zero benefit to anyone else if i or anyone else get vaccinated beyond their own personal gains (if any)

"I still don't understand where this person-centric view of society comes from"

...it is obvious

 

[Matador]

While vaccines do not prevent infection nor transmission there is a zero benefit to anyone else if i or anyone else get vaccinated beyond their own personal gains (if any)

I literally posted three studies that directly refute that understanding.

 

[user 41968]

Not one hour later:



I'm curious: do you wear a seatbelt when you drive? It's more government mandated tyranny, right? I mean, it doesn't stop car accidents, and it doesn't prevent death in a crash, so applying the exact same logic, they are "worthless", right?

I mean, look at this chart, sheeple!

Seatbelts started appearing in cars in the late 50's, with the first mandates in 1961. Look at the increase in deaths in the 1960's: seatbelts cause car deaths! Seatbelts are just Big Nylon and Communist Buckles making everyones cars that much more expensive!

A seatbelt is not mutagenic.

 

[MicDaddy]

I literally posted three studies that directly refute that understanding.

every person that is "fully vaccinated" that is testing positive and transmitting virus (established fact) refutes whatever you're offering of those studies as rebuttal to what I just offered

do we need to check on Australia?
Denmark?
Israel?

What % of "cases" in the US are currently assumed to be Oµ? How good are the 2 shots against that again?

Which shots are Pfizer offering up for kids that will do either prevent infection or transmission of Oµ that have any duration of study currently?
Did they release that 75 years of latent data yet?

 

[Matador]

every person that is "fully vaccinated" that is testing positive and transmitting virus (established fact) refutes whatever you're offering of those studies as rebuttal to what I just offered

EDIT: nevermind.

We really are doomed as a society, aren't we?

 

[MicDaddy]

EDIT: nevermind.

We really are doomed as a society, aren't we?

I mean I thought this while facing unknown downside with not knowing if the children would survive infection circa Feb 2020 but it seems some haven't gotten the memo..........

on the bright side not everyone is dying (just like 2020)
all the unvax'd didn't die
and market are up, smile, it'll be ok, don't be ruled by fear

 

[john12ax7]

The low level of discourse here is rather disappointing. Things like masks and vaccines are not 100% / 0%, work / don't work. Effectiveness is generally a statistical distribution. Can we get a little more science on a scientific forum?

 

[hodad]

 

[ruffrecords]

Here is some first hand data for everyone. Me and gf both double vaxxed, no booster. Went on a trip together, essentially multiple days of the same 24/7 experience. We are both generally careful, but did visit a place where masks were few and far between.

Right now I have symptoms and tested positive. She has no symptoms and tested negative.

Vaccine looks to be batting .500 in our small sample size.

Don't forget women are less susceptible than men. Being vaccinated does not stop you getting the virus but it should mitigate the symptoms. Not all tests will show positive if you have the virus. Your gf may just be asymptomatic. Covid takes longer to incubate in some people.

Apart form that you sample is OK.

Cheers

Ian

 

[crazydoc]

The low level of discourse here is rather disappointing.

Are you kidding? There are people here who claim to know everything there is to know about covid, vaccines, treatments, and life in general, and are more than willing to tell everybody else that any real evidence contrary to their opinions is incorrect. Discourse can't get any higher than that.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Are you kidding? There are people here who claim to know everything there is to know about covid, vaccines, treatments, and life in general, and are more than willing to tell everybody else that any real evidence contrary to their opinions is incorrect. Discourse can't get any higher than that.

doc you need to work on your emoticon game so we can all know you are being sarcastic.

JR

 

[user 41968]

Are you kidding? There are people here who claim to know everything there is to know about covid, vaccines, treatments, and life in general, and are more than willing to tell everybody else that any real evidence contrary to their opinions is incorrect. Discourse can't get any higher than that.

Typical arrogant holier-than-thou "doctor."
Doctor of what?
What are your credentials anyway?

If you're so damn smart go debate Yeadon, Malone, Fleming or McCullough on Joe Rogan.
We know who they are and what they've accomplished.

 

[user 41968]

On a lighter note.

Bill Mahr - Covid Hysteria is Bananas. https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1487182000238772228/vid/320x320/dMGEvf120HLrc4B8.mp4