The wisdom of large crowds (sometimes).

[JohnRoberts]

My 25 YO daily (once weekly) driver is starting to lose reliability. This week while driving home from my once a week shopping trip (@ 80 MPH) on the interstate the motor cut out. My suspicion is that the fuel pump stopped delivering gas temporarily, which means the motor died. I was still rolling along the shoulder at about 25 mph when I finally got it to catch and start up again.

I already ordered a new fuel pump, but is a little more than a simple driveway job (fuel pump goes in from above so the gas tank must be dropped out). I am also swapping out a relay module that could explain a flaky fuel pump, but my bets are on a bad fuel pump. 25 years is a good run for a high pressure fuel pump soaking in ethanol.

I am not looking for car repair advice, but I am considering buying some back up modest transportation. Back when I had a motorcycle that served me well in emergencies but now I am looking for something with 4 wheels.

I figure with the several tens of thousands members here you guys could graciously share some opinions good or bad about potential used vehicle purchases.

My short list so far includes

1.Toyota Camry (4 banger) 2016-2019...
2. Honda accord (4 or 6 cylinder) not CV transmission
3. Lincoln sedan FWD V6 auto
4. open for other suggestions

I am not looking for eyeballs-in acceleration (my mustang cobra still does that when its running), I am looking for a car that starts every time when I want it to.

JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

I agree with your top 2 and no CVT. Why not a Civic? They're pretty big these days compared to 20+ years ago.

I rented a car for a cross country (2650 mile) drive last year. Rental agency failed to have the vehicle I'd reserved so they upgraded me to a Chrysler 300S with 3.6L V6. It was a surprisingly nice car. Quiet, plenty of power, decent mileage (29mpg with 95% freeway driving at 80+mph). No idea about reliability, but it had over 48k miles on it at the end of my trip.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I actually owned a '66 barracuda back in the 70s. Small v8 3 sp auto... speedo was broken when I bought it and I put a zillion miles on it. I once took it to a drag strip to watch some friends race. Since I paid for a pit pass to hang out with my friends who were actually racing, I was allowed to race too. I took off the air cleaner, borrowed a helmet from a friend, and won H-Stock Automatic. Apparently the real racers were doing bracket racing for money that day so I was racing against non serious guys... I was paired up against a F-Stocker and beat him. I still have the trophy. I was angry later when I found out I could have taken $25 cash instead of the trophy.

That Barracuda was still running good when I junked it, the trunk lid was about rusted off and the windshield was cracked. Chrysler went through cycles of over engineering their cars, then under engineering them..Not sure how they are doing now.

Toyota and Honda have pretty good reputations, but I'm probably over thinking this. I'm driving less than 1k miles per year these days. Yup Civics look OK too... mainly 4 bangers.

JR

 

[ruffrecords]

I have a 2017 Ford Edge. We splashed out on the 'luxury pack' = 'leather trim and seats'. Almost as comfy as the Jaguar it replaced. 2L diesel. 8 inch clearance and decent mpg. Starts first time every time. As my Dad would have said "That'll see me out".

Cheers

Ian

 

[scott2000]

My son has an older Kia Rondo and that thing has been crazy reliable. Been cross country 3 times too. I think the only major thing has been the ac clutch went bad. Not sure how their quality or reliability is today. My neighbors bought a little kia suv thing a few years ago and it seems pretty cool. Has a self charging battery so is some kind of hybrid... Got to drive it when I was taking it to drop one of them off at the ports and it was nice enough. Lot of techy things in it...

 

[JohnRoberts]

I have a 2017 Ford Edge. We splashed out on the 'luxury pack' = 'leather trim and seats'. Almost as comfy as the Jaguar it replaced. 2L diesel. 8 inch clearance and decent mpg. Starts first time every time. As my Dad would have said "That'll see me out".

Cheers

Ian

starting every time is a good thing.

My son has an older Kia Rondo and that thing has been crazy reliable. Been cross country 3 times too. I think the only major thing has been the ac clutch went bad. Not sure how their quality or reliability is today. My neighbors bought a little kia suv thing a few years ago and it seems pretty cool. Has a self charging battery so is some kind of hybrid... Got to drive it when I was taking it to drop one of them off at the ports and it was nice enough. Lot of techy things in it...

thanx... Kia not on my short list. A quick web search shows Kia now ranked just above Toyota for reliability. That wasn't the case 20 years ago when they were cheap crapo... (not sure if I trust RepairPal ratings but they do rank Honda as top).

JR

 

[fazer]

I have 3 Hondas in the family. The Fit is a great little car. Only down side would be getting run into with a semi truck. But it’s does have a CVT tranny. Consistent 40 MPG is great these days. It’s comfortable with the high back seats and easy to get in and out. A little short on legroom but doesn’t seem to bother me when driving.

The 2007 CRV is good but has had more maintenance with 140k on it now. Was just told the the steering rack is starting to leak and will run $1700 to replace. I bought that car with 72k miles on it so I put 68k miles on it and bought it for $8.5k so it’s been a good fine at a time I needed a reliable car.

The Passport is 2021 and is great driving but not what your looking for. I’m a Honda fanboy.

 

[Tubetec]

The Camry and its near relatives are some of the most reliable cars ever made ,
The taxi and cabbie industry here swear by them and you often see cars ten or more years old that have been driven round the clock ,ie the mileometer ,but also taxi drivers often share vehicles with different drivers when their shift is over . They do say the older cars from the late 1990's upto around 2010 were better , parts from those models were made almost exclusively in Japan , now like everything its made in PRC and its just not as good as it once was .
I know one old guy , he's more or less retired from the taxi trade now , I think he put 450.000 miles up on his early 2000's Toyota and its still going strong .

I recently gave away my Moms Toyota Yaris to family friends , 2003 vintage , about 200.000 miles on the clock. I had kept it running and the battery maintained , the new owner showed up with a jerry can ,filled the tank ,turned the key, she started up first time and he was able to drive off ,that little car is still going great guns .

 

[hodad]

My mother's had good luck with her Honda Fit (manual transmission)--over 200K miles and going strong. It drives well considering the miles it has on it.

 

[Brian Roth]

One thing I've learned a bit about Honda vehicles is that repair shops (if needed) are tougher to find beyond Honda dealers. My stepdad (RIP) had an early/mid 2000's Odyssey van and even in Oklahoma City metro area (over a million folks in that area) there weren't many decent shops who could/would work on it. Factory parts were also expensive.

I know some other Honda owners who are pleased with the reliability, but shocked when it comes time for repairs.

OTOH, Toyota owners I know (including those in my current city.... pop. 50K) haven't grumbled too much about lack of repair shops and/or parts pricing.

Bri

 

[Gold]

I have a 2008 Odyssey with about 175,00 miles. I’ve ridden it rough and put it away wet and I’ve had basically no trouble with it. I’ve been through a few mechanics but they all will work on Honda’s. I like my current mechanic. He said in the next couple of years the front axel will need replacing. I think that will be it.

I like Honda’s. I think they look better and drive better than the direct competition. I’ll take a Civic over a Corolla and an Accord over a Camry. Some of the Civic’s can be a fun ride.

Honda’s US headquarters is in Alabama. Many of them are manufactured there.

 

[Spiritworks]

Subaru Crosstrek

 

[JohnRoberts]

I have a 2008 Odyssey with about 175,00 miles. I’ve ridden it rough and put it away wet and I’ve had basically no trouble with it. I’ve been through a few mechanics but they all will work on Honda’s. I like my current mechanic. He said in the next couple of years the front axel will need replacing. I think that will be it.

I like Honda’s. I think they look better and drive better than the direct competition. I’ll take a Civic over a Corolla and an Accord over a Camry. Some of the Civic’s can be a fun ride.

Honda’s US headquarters is in Alabama. Many of them are manufactured there.

Since Mercedes Benz opened their US factory in AL ('93), several other car makers have followed (Honda, Hyundai and Toyota).

Most honda owners seem happy.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

Today I replaced my CCRM (constant control relay module)... this has a relay that energizes the fuel pump, so I replaced it with a remanufactured one. The car starts up OK, but I still suspect the 25 year old fuel pump that has been soaking in ethanol.

JR

PS: I am too old for crawling around under my car.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Since I replaced the CCRM, my car has been well behaved but today I drove it down to my neighbor's mechanic buddy out in the country. I live in nowhere MS, this guy lives several miles further out in the boonies.

He is replacing my 25 year old fuel pump, and evap purge valve (the source of my check engine light.

Hopefully this will make it reliable again.

JR

 

[hodad]

Since I replaced the CCRM, my car has been well behaved but today I drove it down to my neighbor's mechanic buddy out in the country. I live in nowhere MS, this guy lives several miles further out in the boonies.

He is replacing my 25 year old fuel pump, and evap purge valve (the source of my check engine light.

Hopefully this will make it reliable again.

JR

I have a similar issue with the check engine light on my 22 year old car (mecahanic said it had something to do with fuel vapor/evaporation). I’ll look into the evap purge valve—I’d never heard of that before, might be a cheap fix.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I have a similar issue with the check engine light on my 22 year old car (mecahanic said it had something to do with fuel vapor/evaporation). I’ll look into the evap purge valve—I’d never heard of that before, might be a cheap fix.

You can buy a cheap error code reader... I paid something like $20 for mine. My check engine light has been illuminated for years. Hopefully after this repair it will be all good. The evap valve error was the only active code in my reader.

Apparently it's a pretty common fault. The planet police suck gas tank vapor into the engine intake manifold. There is a solenoid operated valve to open and close that path as appropriate.

Today I was talking with the back woods mechanic. I gave him my new high pressure fuel pump to install, and told him he needed to source a purge valve solenoid himself, because the one I ordered was broken in shipping.

I won't speculate about how easy it is to fix, but my mechanic said it was probably a good thing to fix it while he had to drop the gas tank out. The fuel pump is inside the gas tank. I think the evap system used a charcoal filter to feed clean air back into the gas tank as it sucks out vapor laden air.

My recent experience is that there are no "easy" car repairs anymore (but I'm getting old).



The valve/solenoid was packed in a flimsy cardboard box, inside a thin mailing envelope with zero padding. I suspect UPS threw it around like a bean bag toss toy, until it hit a hard surface and broke off the brittle plastic/nylon tubing nipple.

JR

PS: warning there is a world of misinformation in "how to" youtube videos. Especially for 25 YO cars. One recent example from when I replaced the CCRM relay module. The youtube advice said it was inside the wheel well behind the wheel well liner, back by the firewall... bzzt fail, it was actually located up toward the front.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Yesterday I picked up my car with new fuel pump and evap purge valve installed. The mechanic pulled apart the old fuel pump to assess its condition. The brushes looked good so fuel pump was not likely to be my immediate problem. While he had the tank down he found other issues, like cracked leaky fill pipe grommet, and dry rotted tubing lines to the evap purge system.

It is disappointing to not find a smoking gun (broken car part) but empirically the car has been starting crisply and running solid 100% of time since I replaced the CCRM module. I was suspicious of it because the fuel pump power is switched by a relay inside the module.

1	RED/ORG	12 Volts Output To Radiator Fan.
2	RED/ORG	12 Volts Output To Radiator Fan.
3	BLK/ORG	12 Volts Input For Radiator Fan Relay (Always Hot)
4	BLK/ORG	NOT USED
5	DK GRN/YEL	12 Volts Output To Fuel Pump.
6
7
8	YEL	12 Volts Input For EEC Power relay (Always Hot).
9
10	YEL	12 Volts Input For EEC Power Relay (Always Hot).
11	YEL	12 Volts Input For Fuel Pump Relay (Always Hot).
12	RED	12 Volts Output VPWR. Power Output To: Fuel Pump Relay, Fuel Injection Computer, Fuel Inyectors, Etc. (Power In RUN Or ON).
13	RED/LT GRN	12 Volts Input For PCM Power Relay (Power In RUN Or ON).
14	DK BLU	Activation Signal Input For Radiator Fan.
15	BLK/WHT	Ground (To Chassis).
16	BLK	Ground (-) For AC Compressor.
17
18	LT BLU/ORG	Activation Signal (-) For Fuel Pump Relay.
19
20
21	DK GRN/ORG	AC 'ON' Signal From A/C Heater Control Panel (12 Volt Signal To The AC Compressor Relay Within CCRM).
22	PNK/YEL	Activation Signal For AC Compressor Relay.
23	BLK/YEL	12 Volts Output For AC Compressor.
24	RED	12 Volts Output VPWR For Fuel Injection System (Hot in RUN Or ON).

I can imagine intermittent power on about half of those several feeds to be enough to kill the engine, or cause it to not start (would crank but not fire).

For now it is working, and my check engine light is dark, so time to look out for additional symptoms.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

Since my car has not misbehaved since I replaced the CCRM relay module a few weeks ago, I have slowed my roll on buying a new (used) car. Since I have run out of obvious things to repair, I washed and waxed the car. I used an almost empty can of blue coral carnauba wax. I am considering investigating a more modern paint sealer for my 25 year old paint.

Yesterday was pretty amusing to watch the stray cat who adopted me, jump up on the front sloped part of the freshly waxed hood, and slide backward off and back down to the ground. All the while swimming through the air with all four legs flailing.

For now I am in wait and see mode for symptoms to recur.

JR

PS: Connecting another dot, the cracked broken gas tank fill tube grommet may have been responsible for the emissions/evap purge check engine light.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Another week with crisp starts coming and going, and no dead stick drama on the interstate.

The check engine idiot light has returned. Same fault as before (P-1443 EVAP purge valve). I have eliminated a couple of the obvious suspects by replacing the purge valve solenoid and associated hoses. Still more sensors and hoses that are also suspect.

I am about ready to return to ignoring this light again like I did for years, as I don't see any deleterious affect to my auto.

It could impact my resale/trade in value but that's life with 25 YO vehicles. I could clear the code temporarily but that is dishonest and I don't roll that way.

JR