Topic: Are Mic Parts Capsules Snake Oil?

[Wordsushi]

Full disclosure: I've been thinking about this as a video topic lately, and it's been on my mind for quite a while so I'd like to get your opinions on this question.
Some claim Mic Parts Matt gets his capsules from AYM. I don't know. All I know is that their price is reflective of what Mic Parts calls a strict internal QC process and the time that requires to make sure consistent levels are met, or something like that. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Because I've done this silly thing by putting myself out there as someone who likes to tinker with mics, I end up getting asked about Mic Parts capsules more than I'd prefer. I have my opinion, and I'd like. your HONEST, UNVARNISHED opinion. And should I actually make a video about this, I may use any opinions left here as part of the video, so if you'd prefer your opinion not used on my stupid channel, please say "Don't quote me."

I have nothing against Matt or Mic Parts. I think he's done a lot to make Mic DIY more accessible and visible and I'm sure a few of us cut our teeth on a Mic Parts project or two.

But would you buy those capsules? Do you think they're worth it? This is a topic I think is worth exploring.

 

[soliloqueen]

My opinion on matt has softened over the years in this industry. I don't think they sound good, and I think he does a lot of marketing BS (especially with his premium power supply), but i personally do believe his QC claims. I think he really does test each one of his capsules and mics. Granted, I think his target curve sounds bad, but I've literally heard the sweeps going in the background when he does other stuff. He puts in a great deal of work. Is it $159 of work? That depends. If you look at the cost of living where he lives (insanely expensive) the price of the capsules starts to make a bit more sense. I can afford to sell more for the same or less because the cost of living here is literally like a quarter what his is. I can simply afford smaller margins. That's a huge advantage for me, but is it right to judge him for it? I mean, he could move somewhere cheaper, but that's a big thing to ask someone to do, and if people are willing to pay, why should he?

I would not buy the capsules and I do not think they're worth it, but that's because I don't like how they sound. Other people do. I don't think they fail on a quality level. I've heard tons of vintage Neumann K47s that sound like the rk47, and I know people that prefer them that way. I also think those vintage k47s are terrible, but that's my opinion. People who like them will also like his capsule. I think he puts the effort in.

 

[kingkorg]

Matt has done huge contribution to the comunity, and his work is invaluable. He's been cataloging and publishing mic info on recording hacks, revealing origin, value, rebranding, history in as much detail as he was able to.

The sad part of the whole story is that he conveniently omitted all this detail when it comes to his capsules. The other issue is that those same stock oem capsules straight from China have low enough tolerances that they don't need additional quality check. I personally don't believe he has so many rejects he claims to have. He knows very well all those edge terminated capsules have nothing in common with CK12, yet chooses to advertise them as related.

My personal note is that it's a shame he never upped the game by making his own stuff.

 

[Khron]

My personal note is that it's a shame he never upped the game by making his own stuff.

Oh, but he "does"!

https://roswellproaudio.com/collections/all

I personally don't believe he has so many rejects he claims to have.

I already voted in the poll several hours ago, figuring i could articulate my choice later, but this sums up the amount of my skepticism (if not even disdain?) quite well.

Yes, recordinghacks was and is a really cool project. MicParts started smelling a bit so-and-so, especially with extolling the alleged virtues of their near-"magical" circuits (which arguably were/are a cash-grab, and/or a vehicle and/or excuse to push overpriced capsules too). And don't get me started on the retail mics...

 

[micolas]

Strictly speaking about the business model: I do not like it.
Neither the Microphone-Parts nor the Roswell products are worth the price.

 

[cyrano]

If I remember correctly, the Roswellite ribbon material was sold to Shure and ended up in the Shure KSM313/NE and KSM353/ED ribbon microphones.

But Matt got to keep the trade mark for Roswell Pro Audio? No Roswellite on his site, afaict.

With a name like that, you should expect at least some marketing magic, no? That's why snake oil is a bit harsh, in my ears. It's not so different from Warm Audio, fi.

 

[Khron]

But Matt got to keep the trade mark for Roswell Pro Audio? No Roswellite on his site, afaict.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_incident

While the root of both names is the same, they are though NOT identical. "Roswellite", i'm sure, was only meant to hint at the unusual materials found at the site of the "UFO" crash, while Roswell is just the place where it happened (which is how and why the name is known nowadays).

 

[Rusan]

As far as capsules, I'd never pay Mic Part's prices for standard Chinese K47, K67/87 and pseudo-CK12 capsules. But, I did for another capsule, kinda sorta.

I built a couple of Mic Parts T-67 kits, which use Matt's "RK-67D" modification of the K67 that lacks the 10kHz peak, coupled to his standard KM84-esque circuit. I only bought it because (1) I liked the idea of a "flat K67" capsule, (2) Matt doesn't sell them outside the kit, else I'd have bought the standalone capsule, and (3) you can't get them anywhere else. So, I gambled on getting burned and bought it.

I'd have been very upset had the novel RK-67D not been as good as it is, considering the kit's price tag. It's not what you'd call a truly top echelon, as-good-as-it-gets mic, but it does have a pleasant, polite U67-like tonal character and works well on everything you put it in front of. I jokingly call it my "U67 FET." I lent it to a professional songwriter friend who's owned some really nice mics, and she didn't wanna give it back. At her request, I built her one.

Ive also heard a Mic Parts S-47 and 12-251, and thought the S-47 was lackluster and buzzy sounding, but the 12-251 was quite nice. Neither the 12-251 or T-67 is subjectively superior to my ears, just different.

So, the opinion formed from my very limited Mic Parts experience is that if you don't have the ability to DIY from scratch or don't want to, the 12-251 is an okay price-to-performance value, the T-67 is better, and the S-47 isn't worth spending your money on. If you can DIY from scratch, then that becomes the economically superior (and far less boring!) choice. Pick your poison, based on your personal ability and motivational level.

In summary, I agree with everyone else: the business model is a little shady, some of the claims made are suspect, and the prices are generally too high for what it is. But, I'll also agree that he's made entry-level DIY a lot more approachable and accessible for the Average Joe musician, by doing all the legwork and providing foolproof build instructions. So, I think that "Yes, not worth what they charge" and "No, I think they are worth the price" are too black-and-white, cut-and-dried, right-and-left responses to properly assess the value of Mic Parts kits. The answer is subjective, and depends on the individual, their particular situation and skill level, and which kit they choose.

 

[elskardio]

well... aren't all commercial products coated with a bit of snake oil?

TBH I think we're not the target market here. Someone looking for a "paint by number" type of project will be happy to pay a little extra to get detailed instructions and technical support if needed.

About their capsules.
I'm pretty sure they're from Dongguan Getwin Electronics and are available for $28 a piece + shipping.
When they released their K87, it was priced $99. It is now $169! Quite an inflation

Micparts claims the following:
"We have selected the RK-87 to meet stringent performance specifications: the front and rear sides of the capsule match to within 0.3dB in sensitivity, and ±1.5dB in frequency response. This ensures the most consistent performance in Omni, and deep nulls in Figure-8."

This implies a good amount of QC on their part. Is it worth $100? probably not!

Also, they used to provide hardcopy frequency response charts with their matched pair. It seems like they stopped, so are they really still doing the intensive quality control?

 

[Khron]

Also, they used to provide hardcopy frequency response charts with their matched pair. It seems like they stopped, so are they really still doing the intensive quality control?

They're being eco-friendly, duuuh! Besides, paper's expensive, adds to the shipping weight too...

 

[kingkorg]

Micparts claims the following:
"We have selected the RK-87 to meet stringent performance specifications: the front and rear sides of the capsule match to within 0.3dB in sensitivity, and ±1.5dB in frequency response. This ensures the most consistent performance in Omni, and deep nulls in Figure-8."

This implies a good amount of QC on their part. Is it worth $100? probably not!

Also, they used to provide hardcopy frequency response charts with their matched pair. It seems like they stopped, so are they really still doing the intensive quality control?

View attachment 130053

The issue is most, if not all of the random capsules i ordered off AliExpress of this type, and probably same origin, checked all these boxes. That graph, to me, looks like Chinese factory graph. Also, k67 FR looks nothing like that, which implies lousy FR measurement setup.

 

[Khron]

Also, k67 FR looks nothing like that, which implies lousy FR measurement setup.

... Or just "massaging" of the data.

***puts on tinfoil hat***

 

[Wordsushi]

I think there are a lot of really great points being made here by all of you.
So, let me just add a couple more thoughts:

Would it be fair to characterize their inflated prices as the cost of using a Mic DIY Concierge service?

Are you paying a bit more to feel confident that you will get a capsule that has been tested to perform at a certain level? Or to get a bag of already vetted components and a very well-thought out and comprehensive build guide?
Are you paying more for peace of mind? Convenience? And is the upcharge worth it?

Are you risk adverse, paying more to avoid buying directly from China? Mic Parts is an established and respected brand in DIY. Store 1003233439 on Aliexpress may not exactly inspire confidence.

But back to the capsules...
It seems that along with the vast increase in capsule resellers, that overall consistency of product received seems to be higher than perhaps it was even just a few years ago.

So is the Mic Parts QC process less relevant today (and by extension, less valuable) than it was before?

I recognize that a great many people on this board do not require a DIY Concierge Service and do not avail themselves of Mic Parts products as a result. But for what seems like a vast majority of Mic DIY enthusiasts I encounter, that level of knowledge or subject mastery hasn't been reached yet.

 

[scondon]

I put a RK-47 in a counterfeit R0de NT-2 back in 2014. (I didn’t know the NT-2 was fake when I bought it, but honestly I should have known. I was living in China at the time and it was very reasonably priced. It was also quite sibilant. Years later, after returning to the US, I sold it as a NT-2 on craigslist and the guy returned it because it didn’t sound like his friend’s NT-2. I opened it up and the boards were marked 797 Audio Behringer B2.) The RK-47 was an improvement - the mic is no longer sibilant and I don’t mind the presence bump, but honestly I don’t use the mic much and am considering trying one of soliloqueen’s 87s in there.
I also bought their s-25 kit, which I got at an introductory discount back in 2018. It is a well designed kit that uses the Transound TSB-2555 and the mic is very useful. It’s bright but neutral, by which I mean non-peaky, sounds good on everything you put in front of it, and it’s a nice small form factor.
As a non-expert diy-er I have had good experiences with mic-parts, they make quality kits and provide good support.

 

[kags]

The microphone kits and after-market mods side of the industry has changed and matured over the last decade—thanks in large part to resources like this forum and others like it. Home-spun manufacturing of boards, capsules, transformers, and even the understanding of circuits has also grown immensely thanks, again, to forums like this. Mic-Parts started before the manufacturing glut and relatively easy access to inexpensive, decent-quality Asian parts. At the beginning of his business, Matt paid expert designers to build his original circuits and through that, he developed his knowledge of design and manufacturing.

I agree that Matt's prices are a bit high, but he does put in the work, whether you like the product or not. This forum's members are much more knowledgeable and picky compared to the average kit builder, so we're not Matt's primary market. As previously stated, Matt lives in an expensive economy and puts in his effort to source, stock, ship, and support his products. I've had my differences with Matt over the years, but he has been consistent (like it or not) and I respect him for that. Like most audio companies, I like some of his products and I don't care for some of his other products. He has provided discount prices for students and educational facilities and the studios around L.A. that have received promotional gear from Roswell and Mic-Parts do use those mics in real sessions with good results.

I can think of several microphone companies who manufacture excellent microphones that would still generate a profit at half their retail price...

As Mark Twain (re-)wrote "...you pays your money and you takes your choice!"

 

[soliloqueen]

but he does put in the work

this thread is about his capsules alone which i think is missing the point. the real effort here is testing the components, assembling the kits, writing novice-proof instructions, providing support, etc.

 

[kags]

this thread is about his capsules alone which i think is missing the point. the real effort here is testing the components, assembling the kits, writing novice-proof instructions, providing support, etc.

Yes - if you take the capsules by themselves, they are certainly "premium-priced" for parts that can be sourced more inexpensively. I look at Mic-Parts as a retailer of those parts, not a designer. He could certainly build a more sophisticated audience if he chose to offer higher-end capsules, like yours! Craftmanship and retailing don't often overlap as we hope...

 

[soliloqueen]

Yes - if you take the capsules by themselves, they are certainly "premium-priced" for parts that can be sourced more inexpensively. I look at Mic-Parts as a retailer of those parts, not a designer. He could certainly build a more sophisticated audience if he chose to offer higher-end capsules, like yours! Craftmanship and retailing don't often overlap as we hope...

yes, but he ships his capsules on time. there are pros to micromanaging production to the level i do, but also cons

 

[Wordsushi]

I actually hadn't noticed this little grey text box before, warning of "counterfeit" RK-12's out there.

If you're going to go down the road of trying to present your brand's capsules as something special, then why wouldn't you call them "MP-12" or "MP-47" and maybe get custom color rings or something? If you had a special relationship with the factory, how hard would it be to give it some customization as opposed to selling a generic-looking capsule and feeling that you have to warn people the other generic capsules that look like it are "counterfeit"?

I think he has tried over the years to brand these capsules to noobs as premium offerings, which I think is awesome, solely because it's something that can unite all of us here in laughter.

Just from a marketing and branding standpoint, if your capsules were special, wouldn't you have a whole page dedicated on your site explaining why? Or, is it just the kind of obfuscation that Matt believes won't be scrutinized by his demographic?

Again, I don't mean to, or want to crap all over Matt, nor am I trying to sandbag his business, but I just want to better understand the what and why.

And while I do agree that Mic Parts being in Northern California likely impacts every aspect of his operating expenses (Sebastapol, CA has a cost of living average that is 51.8 percent higher than the US average), I would hazard a guess that capsule sales are Mic Parts biggest money maker and possibly keep the company afloat, hence the very high markup. But if that's the case, is Mic Parts setting itself up for disaster as the Chinese online marketplaces continue to proliferate, and consumers can't tell the difference between a Mic Parts RK-12 and an Ali RK-12?

If anyone thinks I'm absolutely on the wrong track with this, please say so.

ADDENDUM: Let me just add that I would welcome having Mic Parts Matt respond to this thread and if he does, I hope we can treat it as a safe space for any comments or rebuttal. And in the event that I do use the opinions expressed here for a video, out of complete fairness, I will try to reach him for comment if I don't hear from him beforehand.

 

[kags]

I think when most companies warn of counterfeits that look exactly like their product, they are just trying to scare the customers to buy from them, rather than try to save money. "Buyer beware" works both ways...