Topic: Are Mic Parts Capsules Snake Oil?

[micolas]

I want to make a confession: years ago I was tempted to buy a complete microphone kit, I searched, analyzed.

I did not give in to the excitement of having "magical" (?) results quickly.

(When I was a kid I assembled a lot of commercial electronic kits of all kinds. I remembered that I modified all of them, in a natural attempt to improve them. Most of them contained components that did not meet the QC of the manufacturer of electronic components,
from my country. They actually had an educational role.
Some semiconductors, resistors, etc., were even unmarked, in general they were donated to children's electronics clubs, per kilogram, we measured and marked them as we could in those pioneering years)
So I said NO to kits!
Following some recommendations from @kingkorg and others (thank you all), I admit that I bought capsules tested by them, at a maximum of $20 when there were attractive temporary offers. There were no 797, Takstar, etc., appreciated for their quality and consistency. However, I have to be honest and admit that they were decent, useful, and also quite consistent. Oh, and I've bought many new microphones for $50-60 that already sound decent stock or allow for easy mods. So, I honestly think that many Asian
manufacturers have evolved and have very good results. It's a great thing for us passionate DIYers and not only that, there are many rebrands that we may or may not know about.
"Although the thread is about capsules, I can't help but notice @Wordsushi's enthusiasm when he managed to build an excellent microphone at a very good price, around the psychological $100 mark. I share his enthusiasm.
I'm really glad we live in some good times when we can indulge our passion for DIY.

 

[Voyager10]

I may be swimming against the tide here, but I'm pretty satisfied with what I've had from MicParts. I built a T-12 kit a few years back and still think it's a good mic. I've got their -12, -47 and -87 capsules and (based on my entirely subjective opinions) they're all still in my DIY mics, where I have a whole box of other capsules that aren't. If you're unfortunate enough to own an MXL 990 or 770, I'd actively recommend the headbasket upgrade they sell.

Like most sensible people here I'm not taken in by the Dale resistors or hand-carved output capacitors; the electronics-only kits seem like a rip-off to me, but the OP specifically asked about capsules.

I have to ask to the posters who claim "it's $20 on Aliexpress": post a link to an actual web shop where I can buy one. I can certainly point you at $40 capsules that look and sound similar to the MP ones, but I'm not claiming they are actually the same ones.

 

[micolas]

Guys, it's the weekend, let's smile a little!
(I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself!)
Any resemblance to reality is purely coincidental!

 

[kingkorg]

My understanding has always been Americans like to support local economy, made in USA stuff etc...

What continues to puzzle me is why you wouldn't buy amazing mics like ones made by Shure, which are in T-12 kit price range. Developed, made in US start to finish, amazing microphones. Or even Japanese, European, Australian ones...

Instead one chooses to take path of doing assembling process for quasi microphone manufacturer from the US, fooling them selves they made something. When in reality they followed IKEA style assembly process for the company that charged an arm and a leg for bunch of peanut priced parts mostly made in the east.

This is by no means to call out @Voyager10 It's just that the post reminded me of numerous ones that justify existence and support of companies like M.P. and alike, while omitting legit amazing companies that actually make and develop stuff.

Edit:
What i forgot to mention, MP k67 is not accurate, it still has too mich high end, but uses circuit to compensate for this. So i don't really know what the QC is for when the thing isn't even accurate replica. Same goes for k47, and edge terminated one. Insanity goes through the roof when they suggest swapping Røde edge terminated which are of the higher quality in every possible way with their inferior one that is based on same exact design.

MP SDCs 84 style capsules are made by 3U audio, or whom ever makes them for 3U, again of wrong construction. However i am 100% sure MP doesn't have to do any QC when it comes to these. They share common origin as NT5 capsules, and almost identical construction.

 

[Khron]

Insanity goes through the roof when they suggest swapping Røde edge terminated which are of the higher quality in every possible way with their inferior one that is based on same exact design.

Well, they DO have capsules to sell, and why wouldn't they (try to) give you all the possible reasons to buy them? Nevermind how rooted in reality those reasons are or (especially) aren't...

"Never let facts get in the way of a good story"...

 

[MicMan]

"..Insanity goes through the roof when they suggest swapping Røde edge terminated which are of the higher quality in every possible way with their inferior one that is based on same exact design."

The fifth Sputnik I bought had no bass, so I opened it up to see if the previous owner had somehow damaged the roll-off switch, and out fell - still connected - some third-party transformer which that owner had (pretty crappily) attached, thinking it'd deliver better audio than the built-in original. It sounded awful!

Some are overwhelmed by all the shouting about 'better' transformers, 'better' capsules, 'better' head baskets and think "I'd better 'upgrade'" ..without realising the pretty good capabilities of what they've already got. (Needless to say, I just sent the Sputnik straight back ..four good ones are sufficient!)

If a mic doesn't sound good, do improve it. But if it sounds pretty good as it is, use it, and a little EQ. (I don't want mics to sound 'real', 'true', 'natural', etc. I want mics to give me the sound which I hear in my head!) .. I bought an 'upgraded' capsule from Mic Parts, but I didn't buy the circuit kit ..the capsule made sufficient difference, and Matt - even at his price - saved me the trawl of hunting through Chinese sites, buying three or four capsules to find the sound I was looking for. His price was worth the lack of my hassle, so I'm satisfied.

 

[solowiej]

For what it's worth, I'll weigh in as a paint-by-numbers mic hacker. I work recording production audio in the field and on set, so I don't have a lot of use for LDC mics (that doesn't stop me from piecing some together). I lurk here to glean shortcuts from your vast expertise. I can usually remember which end of the soldering iron to grab and like to DIY my custom connectors and simple repairs out of both necessity and budget. I'm by nature the guy who rebuilds my own vehicles, houses, and now mics. I was thrilled to discover this community.

Before I found this group, checking out the Mic Parts site turned me off. I'm no expert in component quality. At the time I was spinning off of the Michael Joly momentum and seeking to replicate his path with MXL 990s. Mic Parts seemed transparently not the DIY haven it presented itself as but an upmarketer cashing in, much like Michael's Art Supplies selling $26 chunks of "crafting styrofoam" that we all pass by in dumpsters daily. As I've read here, when the cost of components adds up to the same or more than simply buying an equivalent finished product, I try to think carefully about what I'm gaining from the time spent.

My opinion of a successful market is one that enables users first, and provides goods second. Commercializing a stepping-stone entry into noncommercial DIY is like starting a punk band to get rich and famous. My two cents. Thanks for asking and more importantly, for all of your brilliant sharing! Information wants to be free.

 

[mihi_fuchs]

Honestly, I had to check if I had picked the right community.

So, it's been really the first time I read the term "snake oil" here (maybe I'm reading the wrong posts ... hahaha). I'm used to it from other communities, but here it was my first-timer.

I do not vote, that one I give to more sophisticated members ... But I'm with gyraf - this model is nothing new. And no one is forcing you to buy. I just come form the Homepage - no such claims as counterfeit references have been there. He has even an EDU program for schools ...

This FORUM has been always extremely technical and tried to avoid posting opinions but facts. Maybe the introduction of voting is tangling with that working ethics, but I got to say, I dislike this voting stuff (at least in technical fora) ... What you want to vote about - a technical number, if 25VAC is still 25VAC after the transformer? We were always talking about facts with underlying references or common scientific agreement. Problems have been solved, novices have been supported, older members were discussing details ...
Maybe we can limit the voting function to the brewery?

The question for good parts has been raised here very commonly, especially with. microphones, but has always been answered with tech facts, measurement OR very, very carefully.
Now we raise the question, if it is fine where the company CEO lives, as in other states he could offer the products cheaper - I mean, honestly, I know after a couple of pints and boys talk in the locker you may come up with a line like that. But that is going a bit far in my eyes. With the utmost respect to the member who posted it (I think all previous remarks that have been made by you are awesome, supportive and with an expertise in your field I wish I had), please reconsider that post?

Nevertheless, Matt has contributed to DIY. RecordingHacks is one of the most referenced pages here. His tutorials are full of information about circuitry/capsule combination etc. - it's really good information for starters - FOR FREE!

His kits and capsules are in the same range as similar companies (I checked it by today, 1 hour prior to this post). A lot of companies, that people here run or supply or support, do exactly the same. Their names have not been mentioned except Peluso, although these people are actually liking and commenting this thread.

I ordered capsules from another source, same price, same claims. I am super happy. And to be honest, a lot of people forget that on the price from Alibaba most of the times comes shipping, customs and taxes extra. Even if you buy for 30 bucks you can at least double it as customs fees will add (you pay a lot of handling fees, at least in the EU). That's why there are a lot of group buys also organized here.

In my opinion - I liked the technicality of the FORUM and I personally will stick to that. Discussing business models is to me not a technical thread and may be run in the brewery.
The same opinion I have about the voting system - but that is my personal opinion.

With all the respect to all members here - I love Mark - his voice is amazing when doing the syncs (it made me smile a hundred times) ... with all the respect to all people who commented, this community is a great one and I'd love to have pint with everyone I had the pleasure with. I am unhappy with how this vote and the comments here turned out. That is my opinion on that topic.

I apologize beforehand, if that opinion is hurting or making somebody feel uncomfortable, but these things were burning under my nails ... I do not want to blame anyone, but maybe just remember, that the technicality and politeness and the respect for others have been so good here compared to other Forums, that I think we should keep that up high - it makes this thing here different!

Sorry also for the monolog!

Best regards,
Michael

 

[Voyager10]

What continues to puzzle me is why you wouldn't buy amazing mics like ones made by Shure, which are in T-12 kit price range.

In my case: because I didn't simply want another microphone, I was curious, and I had the cash. Consider why anyone would pay $500 for a woodworking course where you make a chair, when you can buy a perfectly good chair for $200?

If all you want is the end product, I 100% agree it makes no sense to source all your parts from a Californian boutique, then pay international shipping and import duty. Nor, having built one kit and learned from it, is there much point in building the same again.

(I'm in the UK, so the whole proudly-made-in-America shtick doesn't really count for much).

 

[Paul W]

I understand being willing to pay more for an educational DIY experience, but I think there are a lot of people looking for a bargain instead, or (most often) in addition.

I for one want maximum bang for my microphone bucks, and am happy to buy (and maybe mod) commercially built mics. If I want more DIY experience, I can always look for other projects, like a DI or reamp box, preamps, etc., trying to find those where I get a bargain as well.

 

[HerbertR]

I completely agree with Michi. What business model or what prices a dealer defines is their own business, and who buys there is everyone's own business.
Claiming untruths or missleading is another matter, and is constantly being dismantled here, like from colleague Kingkorg ....in a very professional, forensic or investigative manner. Whether, it are dealers who claim to be able to manufacture accurate, expensive CK12 capsules and then display a completely different off-axis behavior,.. or however....
And this forum stands for exactly this professionalism, knowledge transfer and innovation. But I would personally definitely refrain from this negative image campaign behavior, not cool....

 

[kingkorg]

To play the devil's advocate, and go against my original post, i also think time plays an important part.

When the original MP kits and capsules came out, there weren't many options available. Info about this stuff was not as available as it is now. To the best of my knowledge i was among the first ones to figure out poor man's measurement setup, and started comparing generic capsules to re-branded ones, originals etc, and publish measurements. Not to say i was the only one with a measurement setup, but it seems most of those whom had one were shy posting their findings. Published Recording Hacks graphs are quite unreliable.

To be fair Matt is in a way behind my first post here, because in the beginning, i had no idea de-emphasis was even a thing besides Dolby stuff. So adding built in filter to a k67 based mic to get it to resemble u87 was a revelation to me. Still i wasn't going to pay what he asked for 2 resistors, a cap, a diode and a pot in order to mod my SP mic.

I just think he should have moved beyond his initial model, and i don't think what he has to offer now in 2024 is anywhere near as valuable as it was 10 years ago. We have also moved beyond adding a simple filter to get the u87 sound.

Just for instance and perspective, @soliloqueen is currently at a level where i have no idea how to contribute any further, as she is going under 1db of tolerance, and thinking about how the capsules will perform in a decade, also taking geographical location, climate of where they will be used into consideration. All that while posting about every detail and setback along the way.

Not saying this to claim her products are better because i had some part in the process, or her model appeals to me, i'm just saying that's where we are now in 2024.

Another example would be Ohma World mics. Look at the pricing, what they have done to develop beautifully looking and sounding mic, all made in USA, very expensive area, insane marketing and promo stuff. Again i had some part in that as well, but like in Soliloqueen's case i contributed out of admiration, and honest desire to make something different. Never made a cent out of it. Not virtue signaling, it's just that not everything is about making a buck.

 

[soliloqueen]

as she is going under 1db of tolerance

god i wish. the closest i've hit in a single run is 2:

(run 2, units 31-60 of 150 flat k47s we just made)

 

[Wordsushi]

If you don't think operational costs of living in California, where most of the state's cost of living is 50% greater than the US average, are not influential on a business operating expenses, you won't ever understand the financial ramifications of running a business in California.

For example, Californiia minimum wage is $16/hr, or $20/hr for fast food workers and between $18-$23 for healthcare.
US average minimum wage=$7.25

The US average for commercial space rental is $37/sq ft.
In Sebastapol, CA where mic parts is located, it's $50/sq ft
Northern California is one of the most expensive parts of the state.

And that's before you even calculate higher cost of insurance, utilities, employee benefits. Calfornia also has very high state income tax rates, as well as business license rates... etc, etc, etc... Just having an LLC in the state of California costs $800/year before you've even paid a penny in other costs. Get the picture?

So, don't be so naive to think that location, especially that close to one of the most expensive cities in the US (San Francisco) in the state with the 2nd highest cost of living (California, which is only #2 because Hawaii is an island), doesn't impact your bottom line and your monthly nut.

 

[SubSpec]

Insanity goes through the roof when they suggest swapping Røde edge terminated which are of the higher quality in every possible way

Being such a Blue fanboy (their good stuff at least) the Bluebird mod drives me nuts.

From the Mic Parts page:

The stock capsule is nice, but the mic's sound is too bright for some sources

Now for the real irony.

From the Recording Hacks page (by the same guy):

The Bluebird is a large-diaphragm, fixed-cardioid FET condenser microphone with a relatively neutral response.

The capsule is Blue’s model B8, which is available separately for Blue’s Bottle mics. The B8 is an edge-terminated 34mm design (25mm diaphragm) with a 6-micron Mylar diaphragm, sputtered with pure gold.

That is the Blue B8. Having owned all the Blue caps, it is without question the most well rounded capsule they make, it is voiced in a well balanced manner with a bit of a smiley but nothing extreme (like the B0) and it's top end is not at all hyped. It is an extremely good capsule for such an affordable mic and the idea of replacing it with an RK-47 is absurd.

 

[Wordsushi]

Being such a Blue fanboy (their good stuff at least) the Bluebird mod drives me nuts.

From the Mic Parts page:


Now for the real irony.

From the Recording Hacks page (by the same guy):


That is the Blue B8. Having owned all the Blue caps, it is without question the most well rounded capsule they make, it is voiced in a well balanced manner with a bit of a smiley but nothing extreme (like the B0) and it's top end is not at all hyped. It is an extremely good capsule for such an affordable mic and the idea of replacing it with an RK-47 is absurd.

Yeah, that's not greasy at all. LOL.

I'm going back and forth on whether or not to make this video, but I think it would really be about what the recommended alternative affordable capsules are that are cheaper than Mic Parts.

 

[SubSpec]

Yeah, that's not greasy at all. LOL.

I'm going back and forth on whether or not to make this video, but I think it would really be about what the recommended alternative affordable capsules are that are cheaper than Mic Parts.

I've only made one purchase from them, but I really like the way JLI does things. No hype, or insane markups, they are imported caps from Getwin and Takstar (I think), but they ship fast from the US and they are by all accounts a respected partner / importer and member of the DIY community.

 

[soliloqueen]

I've only made one purchase from them, but I really like the way JLI does things. No hype, or insane markups, they are imported caps from Getwin and Takstar (I think), but they ship fast from the US and they are by all accounts a respected partner / importer and member of the DIY community.

Jlis pricing is more or less exactly double their cost, which sounds like a lot but it's actually the lowest in the retail industry. Markups for these parts are normally huge. Their pricing is the best in the industry by far and about where I think Mic parts should be priced ideally

 

[Wordsushi]

I didn't want to influence the conversation, but my first suggestions for affordable capsules would be JLI, especially their Takstar k87 style caps.

I also recently picked up an isolated backplate k87 style from Ali that I would recommend, but having only bought one I can't speak to consistency.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804036192060.html

So, does anyone have any experience with the JLI k47 style (which looks like a Getwin) or their CK12-style capsules?

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

I may be swimming against the tide here, but I'm pretty satisfied with what I've had from MicParts. I built a T-12 kit a few years back and still think it's a good mic. I've got their -12, -47 and -87 capsules and (based on my entirely subjective opinions) they're all still in my DIY mics, where I have a whole box of other capsules that aren't. If you're unfortunate enough to own an MXL 990 or 770, I'd actively recommend the headbasket upgrade they sell.

Like most sensible people here I'm not taken in by the Dale resistors or hand-carved output capacitors; the electronics-only kits seem like a rip-off to me, but the OP specifically asked about capsules.

I have to ask to the posters who claim "it's $20 on Aliexpress": post a link to an actual web shop where I can buy one. I can certainly point you at $40 capsules that look and sound similar to the MP ones, but I'm not claiming they are actually the same ones.

An individual one would probably be $30~ if you're buying singles. There's gonna be sizeable discount at volume.