Topic: Are Mic Parts Capsules Snake Oil?

[TimG]

Favoring MicParts, when I was brand new to DIY, they offered a lot of confidence. I think you could even send him your almost-working devices to fix!

And they were the first place I saw detailed discussions of what the differences were between the capsules they sold.

One of the capsules I got for the MP MXL 990xf upgrade was an RK67 “D” they were selling for this build, which evolved into other later RK67e’s they sold. So they are doing QC in the sense of trying to improve some aspect to the product.

I suspect the weaknesses of the RK67d’s were less apparent with the transformer based circuit.

 

[Voyager10]

I'd point out that Beesneez offer a K-67 capsule under the "3rd-party product with added QC" model, and sell it for the same sort of price as MP. Is that wrong too? How about Peluso, MicAndMod, Dachman, Maiku ...?

At the $150 level, it seems to me that only Soliloqueen's Arienne Audio does research, design, build and test in-house. Maybe a more worthy subject for a video than picking on Matt specifically.

 

[gyraf]

It's all the peluso model, you're right

We just expect better from a diy-company, as they are supposed to (to some degree) educate. And this is sorta the opposite.

/Jakob E.

 

[kingkorg]

It's all the peluso model, you're right

We just expect better from a diy-company, as they are supposed to (to some degree) educate. And this is sorta the opposite.

/Jakob E.

Now that you posted, without trying to be a kiss ass, I have no resson to be. Look at the marvelous, unique products, years of free, active support to DIY. DIY projects such as 1176, SSL, G9, G7...

Do i need to mention wages, and living expenses in Denmark? Yet i can't remember seeing one post meant to advertise Gyraf products. Thank you

 

[cyrano]

It's all the peluso model, you're right

We just expect better from a diy-company, as they are supposed to (to some degree) educate. And this is sorta the opposite.

/Jakob E.

Teaching people not to be naive isn't the easiest job...

 

[kingkorg]

Teaching people not to be naive isn't the easiest job...

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.

 

[cyrano]

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.

When the internet was rather new, I was running a "Craig's list" style of server. One day, there was an ad reading "I wanna borrow money. They ask me to pay an insurance, but I think it's a scam".

I decided to send him a mail, explaining it was a scam. Got a mail back, thanking me.

A few weeks later, he sent another mail. "I have paid, was I scammed?"...

I really, really hate it when they scam people who are already down and out. So I took the scammer's operation out. Completely.

 

[Khron]

So, don't be so naive to think that location, especially that close to one of the most expensive cities in the US (San Francisco) in the state with the 2nd highest cost of living (California, which is only #2 because Hawaii is an island), doesn't impact your bottom line and your monthly nut.

That's fair enough, but... Is anyone holding a gun to Matt's head, forcing him to stay (or at least have his business HQ) there? I mean... there ARE options, one would think.

 

[MagnetoSound]

You can’t blame him for where he wants to live and work.

It’s a free market. There’s no gun to anyone’s head.

I bought an MP RK-47 once, the same time as I bought my EQU-47 body. It sounds ok, but I haven’t gone back.

He isn’t scamming anyone. If he has deep overheads, fair enough. Are there better deals for experienced builders? Of course.

 

[JeffKall]

If you don't think operational costs of living in California, where most of the state's cost of living is 50% greater than the US average, are not influential on a business operating expenses, you won't ever understand the financial ramifications of running a business in California.

For example, Californiia minimum wage is $16/hr, or $20/hr for fast food workers and between $18-$23 for healthcare.
US average minimum wage=$7.25

The US average for commercial space rental is $37/sq ft.
In Sebastapol, CA where mic parts is located, it's $50/sq ft
Northern California is one of the most expensive parts of the state.

And that's before you even calculate higher cost of insurance, utilities, employee benefits. Calfornia also has very high state income tax rates, as well as business license rates... etc, etc, etc... Just having an LLC in the state of California costs $800/year before you've even paid a penny in other costs. Get the picture?

So, don't be so naive to think that location, especially that close to one of the most expensive cities in the US (San Francisco) in the state with the 2nd highest cost of living (California, which is only #2 because Hawaii is an island), doesn't impact your bottom line and your monthly nut.

Well, Mark …
Your point regarding CA is well taken …

I moved to LA from Fargo, ND in 1978 to be a music engineer … and spent the next 37 years dealing with the cost of living in CA … until packing up my CA native blonde wife and leaving my two adult sons behind in LA to move back home to Fargo in 2015 …

What I discovered in my near 40 year absence is that while LA’s cost of living remains stratospheric … even Fargo is notably catching up !

Subsequently … my CA blonde’s desire to have fast food lunch at McDonalds (she is addicted to the Fillet O Fish) now costs us the same amount for the two of us as a sit down meal at a nice restaurant in LA cost our young family of four 30 years ago …

Subsequently … ALL of us … no matter where we call home … need to consider costs when we are spending our hard earned DIY budgets …

I agree that this forum’s focus needs to be rooted in all the technical aspects that make it educational, supportive and constantly encouraging for moving our collective desire to improve the tools of our respective hobbies and trades forward …

And I love the resident geniuses here (you know who you are) for their FREE advice and expertise to guide those of us still wet behind our DIY ears in navigating and avoiding the potential pitfalls of our newfound passionate sojourn …

But I also appreciate the information collectively shared for finding the best parts for the best prices to stretch our collective budgets …

I am proud to have found GroupDIY and thankful for all the technical knowledge all of you have contributed to me through osmosis … and the genuine respect and camaraderie shown by its contributors for one another MOST of the time !

And I must shout out to @soliloqueen for her integrity and passion to make the best products possible and affordable and her desire to continue raising the bar …

Hers is a business model that deserves our business … and she is not alone here … and that is what makes this forum worth protecting and growing !!!

 

[soliloqueen]

I'd point out that Beesneez offer a K-67 capsule under the "3rd-party product with added QC" model, and sell it for the same sort of price as MP. Is that wrong too? How about Peluso, MicAndMod, Dachman, Maiku ...?

At the $150 level, it seems to me that only Soliloqueen's Arienne Audio does research, design, build and test in-house. Maybe a more worthy subject for a video than picking on Matt specifically.

People do keep telling me to raise my prices too. It's a common saying that there is a good, cheap, fast triangle and you can only pick two. I am definitely an extreme example of picking only the first two. I bet a lot of people would have paid more to get this done faster.

 

[MediaWorksOKC]

People do keep telling me to raise my prices too. It's a common saying that there is a good, cheap, fast triangle and you can only pick two. I am definitely an extreme example of picking only the first two. I bet a lot of people would have paid more to get this done faster.

You are well on your way to your own plane of existence and your prices should be where they both keep your head together and make your system stable for as many years as you intend to own your zone. If that also means that DIY at large continues to benefit from your gift and you don't get gobbled up by a startup flame-out or a wasting major, so much the better for all.

 

[terry setter]

Quick comment: Matt mentioned to me recently that he has had ENTIRE shipments of goods (yes, from China) that he had to PAY to dispose of because each piece failed to meet his QC. He added that there has been a steady increase in the percentage of products he receives that he cannot sell in good conscience. The Chinese suppliers have no "return policy", and you have to pay in advance for what they send you. This has dramatically increased his costs, despite the listed prices from his suppliers not appearing to have increased.

Also, Matt doesn't live in L.A. He lives rather far off the beaten path, in an area that is not known for having an exceptionally high cost of living. Yes, he's still in California, as are his friends, family, and long-term roots. Does he owe it to his customers to move to Fargo so that we can get cheaper goods? Oliver Archut moved to Kansas, which helped with his overhead costs, but he complained for years that he couldn't find workers who cared about making microphones and that he was in a cultural desert.

 

[Wordsushi]

Quick comment: Matt mentioned to me recently that he has had ENTIRE shipments of goods (yes, from China) that he had to PAY to dispose of because each piece failed to meet his QC. He added that there has been a steady increase in the percentage of products he receives that he cannot use. The Chinese suppliers have no "return policy", and you have to pay in advance for what they send you. This has dramatically increased his costs, despite the listed prices from the suppliers not appearing to have increased.

Also, Matt doesn't live in L.A. He lives rather far off the beaten path, in an area that is not known for having an exceptionally high cost of living. Yes, he's still in California, as are his friends, family, and long-term roots. Does he owe it to his customers to move to Fargo so that we can get cheaper goods? Oliver Archut moved to Kansas, which helped with his overhead costs, but he complained for years that he couldn't get workers who cared about making microphones and that he was in a cultural desert.

 

[Paul W]

I didn't want to influence the conversation, but my first suggestions for affordable capsules would be JLI, especially their Takstar k87 style caps.

I also recently picked up an isolated backplate k87 style from Ali that I would recommend, but having only bought one I can't speak to consistency.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804036192060.html

So, does anyone have any experience with the JLI k47 style (which looks like a Getwin) or their CK12-style capsules?

I'm curious about any actual measurements of their JLI-RK47. The frequency response plots in their pdf file show a 10KHz bump like a K67.

I don't know if that's an entirely fictitious plot, or something interesting.

If it's for real I wonder if it would be a reasonable thing to put in a U87 type circuit with HF deemphasis, but still resemble a K47 in terms of off-axis response once EQ'd that way.

 

[Paul W]

If you're unfortunate enough to own an MXL 990 or 770, I'd actively recommend the headbasket upgrade they sell.

Is there actually anything wrong with the 990 / 770 headbasket?

I'm under the impression that it's fairly transparent, and it's pretty large, like a small body U47. Mic Parts's own description of their replacement headbasket describes it as a "cosmetic upgrade," which I interpret to mean it looks like a Neumann headbasket, but doesn't really make your mic sound more like a Neumann. (If it did, they'd probably say so.)

 

[narcolepzzz]

I am a moron. I had no idea what was going on at first (rk47 was the first thing I ever soldered in my life), and mostly still don't but I'll say MP significantly lowered the barrier to entry. Diy mic scene isn't that well organized and it can be overwhelming to sort through it all if you don't already know what to look for. MP is overpriced if you know what's going on, but they provide a high floor for quality compared to the crapshoot that is eBay and AliExpress.

IMHO until we start maintaining stickied threads here with opening posts listing recommended learning materials, popular mods, projects, suppliers, etc I'm okay with thinking of the MP premium as the price for entry

 

[Khron]

I'm curious about any actual measurements of their JLI-RK47. The frequency response plots in their pdf file show a 10KHz bump like a K67.

I don't know if that's an entirely fictitious plot, or something interesting.

If it's for real I wonder if it would be a reasonable thing to put in a U87 type circuit with HF deemphasis, but still resemble a K47 in terms of off-axis response once EQ'd that way.
View attachment 130299

This should answer your query:

https://groupdiy.com/threads/is-the-k47-capsule-too-dark.79575/post-1026671

 

[kingkorg]

I'm curious about any actual measurements of their JLI-RK47. The frequency response plots in their pdf file show a 10KHz bump like a K67.

I don't know if that's an entirely fictitious plot, or something interesting.

If it's for real I wonder if it would be a reasonable thing to put in a U87 type circuit with HF deemphasis, but still resemble a K47 in terms of off-axis response once EQ'd that way.
View attachment 130299

Nope, these are just made up. F8 and omni compared to cardioid don't make sense at all.

 

[kingkorg]

Quick comment: Matt mentioned to me recently that he has had ENTIRE shipments of goods (yes, from China) that he had to PAY to dispose of because each piece failed to meet his QC. He added that there has been a steady increase in the percentage of products he receives that he cannot sell in good conscience. The Chinese suppliers have no "return policy", and you have to pay in advance for what they send you. This has dramatically increased his costs, despite the listed prices from his suppliers not appearing to have increased.

If true, that would be the sign to either change the supplier or do manufacturing themselves. So that stuff went to garbage? I don't think so, there are many other ways to get rid of sub par components and still get some money out of it.

I'll get into semantics when it comes to: "The Chinese suppliers have no "return policy"." Maybe that specific supplier doesn't have return policy, which would be weird, why would you start a serious wholesale cooperation and base your own manufacturing on such a stupid deal? In that case end customer pays for MP not being critical when picking OEM partners, and not QC. Anyways, most serious chinese companies have return policies.

797 audio makes Slate ML1, ML2... TL Sphere, budget ones for Audio Technica, Universal Audio, and many more. Certified graphs come with every capsule, and no issues with returns. But at 30$ per capsule they seem to be too expensive for MP...