Topic: Are Mic Parts Capsules Snake Oil?

[amplexus]

this thread is about his capsules alone which i think is missing the point. the real effort here is testing the components, assembling the kits, writing novice-proof instructions, providing support, etc.

This is my take as well.

Capsules aside- as someone who repairs this shit for a living, and also has many years of teaching and training experience, I will confidently claim that there is no better documented and packaged DIY kit around than what Matt puts together. For someone looking to get into DIY gear they are an incredible starting point and I think there is real tangible value in that.

Add on then that he is (or at least was) doing a reasonable amount of QC on the capsules and kit parts, and provides legitimately high quality electronic parts and the value proposition evens out a bit i think.

I would agree that the “finished goods” mics are probably overpriced for what they are but when I have a student or client looking to get a start on DIY, MicParts is one of two or three places I point them.

I did build a pair of T-47’s with their capsules and actually found them to be really quite lovely mics and anyone else who’s used them felt similarly. I have since replaced the capsules with @soliloqueen’s flat 47’s and they have made a definite improvement- but that’s just taken a mic i already really liked and jumped it into another level.

 

[scarlettamps]

The capsules themselves aren't really worth the price, but the instructions and support probably are to a novice. Advanced DIY people really don't need that level of hand holding so pretty much anyone in this forum is probably already past that point. I didn't blame him for what he charges because his email is probably insane and he deserves to be paid for his support to the customer.

 

[MicMan]

Well, maybe I'm stupid, or more tolerant of retail packaging, whereas I could pay less if I bought straight from the Chinese factory (which I did for a pair of Takstar mics ..pretty much indistinguishable - to my ears - from sE mics.).
I bought an (awfu) used cheap'n'cheerful Avantone CV12 for next to nothing on theBay, saw Matt's ads, and bought a capsule from him to replace whatever was in the original mic. It took about 15 minutes to open the body, remove the original capsule, fit the Mic Parts capsule and close the body again. The result was well worth the (minimal) effort!
One is buying retail from him, not wholesale, so one has to pay his running costs. Items are sent out fast - I'm in the UK, and the capsule came very fast considering the time taken by other imports from the US. Pretty packaging, and comprehensive instructions.
I agree that his target market is not people here, not specialists, but DIY novices who think they'd like some improvement on what they've bought. Fair enough. If his customers will pay his prices - I did - then he has a good business model. The cognoscenti may buy elsewhere.
RecordingHacks was a great resource ..I wouldn't have bought the (terrific!) M-Audio Sputnik mics which I did, if I hadn't seen his frequency charts, which other review sites never bothered publishing (to the best of my meagre knowledge, anyway).
I looked, I bought, I was satisfied. No complaints ..even if he does use a bit of over-hype. But that's how businesses are built.

 

[papab]

i see many parallels between what groove tubes did with vacuum tubes and what matt is doing with DIY capsules, except for the over the top GT branding and marketing.

That price/value ratio was IMO was far worse than what Matt is doing. He is delivering something many novice DIY’ers need.

His capsules have a lot more competition and now that we are in the lower end mic renaissance, we are lucky to have all the options we do. I personally think he still offers good value for the beginner, but you don’t even have to DIY on the low end anymore, you can just do a few mods. Great place for the market to be.

 

[gyraf]

..for microphones, "the Peluso model" is the oldest business in the book: Find supplier of parts, claim QC or "inhouse tuning", then sell at a premium price. Quite a few now well-known microphone companies started out this way the past 25 years

/Jakob E.

 

[Wordsushi]

I've decided not to do a video about this topic at this moment because I feel there's a chance it could potentially come off as a hit piece and the last thing I would want is to hurt Matt's business since he doesn't deserve that. At least not until we find he's the one who shot Kennedy... which I haven't ruled out.

Maybe in some way, overpaying for a capsule just to make sure you get one that sounds like it's supposed to sound is part of the Mic DIY growing process, as opposed to getting something that just sounds off and lacking the experience to even realize it. It's a free market. I'm not the Mic Parts demographic and that's just fine.

I do, however, very much appreciate this conversation and hope it continues for the benefit of DIY newcomers who wonder what else is out there beyond Mic Parts.

And @gyraf is right. It's kind of a proven business model despite how greasy it may be. Maybe one that has it's limitations as to how far you can ride it until it breaks, but nobody's putting a gun to my head to buy any of Peluso's crap either.

 

[Paul W]

View attachment 130072
I actually hadn't noticed this little grey text box before, warning of "counterfeit" RK-12's out there.

If you're going to go down the road of trying to present your brand's capsules as something special, then why wouldn't you call them "MP-12" or "MP-47" and maybe get custom color rings or something? If you had a special relationship with the factory, how hard would it be to give it some customization as opposed to selling a generic-looking capsule and feeling that you have to warn people the other generic capsules that look like it are "counterfeit"?

His brand of built (not kit) mics is "Roswell," so I was wondering if RK-12 was perhaps meant to signify "Roswell K-12," but I don't really know if there's a connection.

 

[Khron]

And @gyraf is right. It's kind of a proven business model despite how greasy it may be. Maybe one that has it's limitations as to how far you can ride it until it breaks, but nobody's putting a gun to my head to buy any of his crap either.

{cough} Telefunken Elektroakustik, RFT / Alchemy series {cough}

His brand of built (not kit) mics is "Roswell," so I was wondering if RK-12 was perhaps meant to signify "Roswell K-12," but I don't really know if there's a connection.

I thought, some years ago, ir might've stood for RayKing, a capsule... "brand", dare i call it?

 

[soliloqueen]

rayking was definitely constructed backwards from RK. I'm pretty sure but not positive that the R stands for Recordinghacks

 

[Wordsushi]

{cough} Telefunken Elektroakustik, RFT / Alchemy series {cough}



I thought, some years ago, ir might've stood for RayKing, a capsule... "brand", dare i call it?

I do remember Ray King capsules, and I also thought it was where Mic Parts got their stuff since it looked identical. And they were also using the RK designation which just made it that much more confusing.
And it appears through this site, you can still buy Ray King capsules one at a time.
https://raykingkrystal.en.ec21.com/

 

[MicMaven]

Are you paying a bit more to feel confident that you will get a capsule that has been tested to perform at a certain level?
Are you paying more for peace of mind? Convenience? And is the upcharge worth it?

Ultimately, it is a matter of credibility. I simply do not believe what he says about quality control and competition from counterfeit goods. He provides no documentation or evidence to substantiate or prove either claim, only vague, platitudinous hyperbole. My wife read the bit about counterfeit capsules, and uttered something that sounded like "disingenuous blather" . . . but, this is just MY take - you be the judge!

Writing kit manuals is not very difficult and is a once-and-done sort of proposition. Kit manuals are not all that abstruce or recondite - all it takes is 1) the kit, 2) a weekend, 3) a case of beer, and 3) a notepad to list each step as you build the kit. Taking photos with your camera earns bonus points. Of course, it DOES require really GOOD beer, none of that watered down light crap masquerading as real beer. It is like putting premium gasoline in a performance car. You guys know what I mean.

As a novice electronics hobbyist, I consider Mic Parts overpriced, oversold nonsense. Nobody really learns much from building kits, and the instructions say precious little about the underlying science, making it a very expensive result imparting little knowledge. Notwithstanding the heady sense of self-satisfaction that comes from a successful home brewed project, I much prefer building from low cost parts I source, myself, or putting serious folding money into manufactured products which benefit from economies of scale and truely controling the quality of the manufacturing process. Building a microphone that costs more than comparablly priced, higher quality commercial products makes no sense. Building a bargain that outperforms the price, is ... welll ... as they say, "priceless." I do not feel Mic Parts kits provide this sort of value for money.

Gratuitous Sidebar: The poll is sorta, kinda backward - like so many political propositions on the ballot - as it requires one to vote YES to say NO, it is NOT worth the price; and NO to say Yes, it IS worth the price, which seems sort of backward. No big deal, just observing it is somewhat equivocal.

Happy trails to all. James

 

[MicMan]

I do remember Ray King capsules, and I also thought it was where Mic Parts got their stuff since it looked identical. And they were also using the RK designation which just made it that much more confusing.
And it appears through this site, you can still buy Ray King capsules one at a time.
https://raykingkrystal.en.ec21.com/

Indeed, the RayKing website offers a "Condenser Microphone Parts Capsule Double Diaphragm"

 

[MicMan]

Ultimately, it is a matter of credibility. I simply do not believe what he says about quality control and competition from counterfeit goods. He provides no documentation or evidence to substantiate or prove either claim, only vague, platitudinous hyperbole. My wife read the bit about counterfeit capsules, and uttered something that sounded like "disingenuous blather" . . . but, this is just MY take - you be the judge!

Writing kit manuals is not very difficult and is a once-and-done sort of proposition. Kit manuals are not all that abstruce or recondite - all it takes is 1) the kit, 2) a weekend, 3) a case of beer, and 3) a notepad to list each step as you build the kit. Taking photos with your camera earns bonus points. Of course, it DOES require really GOOD beer, none of that watered down light crap masquerading as real beer. It is like putting premium gasoline in a performance car. You guys know what I mean.

As a novice electronics hobbyist, I consider Mic Parts overpriced, oversold nonsense. Nobody really learns much from building kits, and the instructions say precious little about the underlying science, making it a very expensive result imparting little knowledge. Notwithstanding the heady sense of self-satisfaction that comes from a successful home brewed project, I much prefer building from low cost parts I source, myself, or putting serious folding money into manufactured products which benefit from economies of scale and truely controling the quality of the manufacturing process. Building a microphone that costs more than comparablly priced, higher quality commercial products makes no sense. Building a bargain that outperforms the price, is ... welll ... as they say, "priceless." I do not feel Mic Parts kits provide this sort of value for money.

Gratuitous Sidebar: The poll is sorta, kinda backward - like so many political propositions on the ballot - as it requires one to vote YES to say NO, it is NOT worth the price; and NO to say Yes, it IS worth the price, which seems sort of backward. No big deal, just observing it is somewhat equivocal.

Happy trails to all. James

Well, you could say the same thing about plastic Revell build-it-yourself model car, boat and aeroplane kits: it's just bits of plastic you have to stick together and paint yourself. Or balsa wood DIY aircraft: it's just strips of wood in a box with some instructions. Or flower arranging!

Wow, James, you're taking all the fun out of it!

 

[RuudNL]

Don't tell Matt that you don't like his products or you will start a war!

 

[pmfalcman]

People here wrote about great manuals, effort put into this and that, value for DIYers etc.
All about a sort of an "envelope". Thereis a value to this, sure.
But let me get pragmatic.

Technically I'm probably in target group for Mic Parts offer. I can put together a circuit, I can tell a capacitor from a resistor and can handle soldering iron well enough to solder even ATMega or smd. But that's it.
Therefore no probs for me to modify a mic provided I'm told which parts to replace. No idea why and how it works though. Kits like Mic Part's are for me.
I have an MXL 770. Wanted to make it better. I found Mic Parts site:
169 USD for the capsule and 209 USD for a pcb and few components.... yyyy, WHAT????
Capsules' prices I didn't know at the time. Though I wasn't somehow convinced that its characteristic is stellar. But components? Oh, yes! I know the prices....
378 USD for a kit? Not counting the mic itself. And shipping.
Lewitt 440 Pure, which beats the hell out of modified MXL, I presume, is 289 euro.
And shipping is cheaper.
Ready made mic, super quiet, with warranty - +/- 100 USD/euro less.
I promptly forgot about Mic Parts. Anyone's surprised?

Putting together a circuit, a mic is fun, no doubt. But in this case the fun cost a bit too much.

 

[Khron]

Putting together a circuit, a mic is fun, no doubt. But in this case the fun cost a bit too much.

Hence, DIY

 

[pmfalcman]

Hence, DIY

Yup, that's what I do
A little bit of digging, reading forums uncovers a wealth of informations. Saves a good chunk of these 209 USD
And is fun too.

 

[A. Bernal]

Just relating my experience. I have changed at least 10 capsules from Mic Parts In originals U47s and U87s In México City, of course with the anuence of my clients, 'cause the originales are so expensive, and they reports nobody, golden ears included, have noted any difference.

 

[micolas]

Just relating my experience. I have changed at least 10 capsules from Mic Parts In originals U47s and U87s In México City, of course with the anuence of my clients, 'cause the originales are so expensive, and they reports nobody, golden ears included, have noted any difference.

I don't want to offend anyone. I ask like a fool: If you had used the exact same capsules, but bought cheaper from Alibaba, AliExpress, etc., without additional QC from MP, how many customers would have noticed striking differences from those bought from MP?

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

I don't want to offend anyone. I ask like a fool: If you had used the exact same capsules, but bought cheaper from Alibaba, AliExpress, etc., without additional QC from MP, how many customers would have noticed striking differences from those bought from MP?

I don't think there's any QC going on there. Tolerances at a lot of the Chinese factories are pretty strict. I believe Kingkorg has found companies like Takstar to produce more consistent capsules than Neumann. Matt also claims his RK87 is flatter than the original which flat out isn't true. Might've been Khron who said he measured it as one of the brightest K67s out there. You might notice better quality buying from AliExpress or Alibaba because companies like Takstar sell on there.

Whether or not you agree with the ethicality of taking $20~ capsules and selling them for nearly $200, he is absolutely a snake oil salesmen because of the claims he makes. He makes shit up to sell his product like the RK87 being flat despite having twice the high frequency boost other capsules of this type have (RK87 is like +10 dB, the others are around 5 dB), the RK12 having anything in common with a CK12, and whatever other asinine claims he makes. If he weren't a snake oil salesmen he wouldn't get so defensive when people criticize him.

I respect Matt a bit more than Peluso but that's a pretty low bar (and it's Peluso's prices that cause me to not respect him). With how cheap good mics are now I don't see a reason to support these guys when CAD and Oktava deliver me a better product for $200~ than they do for $500+.