Twitter

[JohnRoberts]

The outrage over the Twitter files seems highly selective and specific, with a Trump white house coordinating closely with favorable news outlets seeming to pass without comment here on GroupDIY.

Good luck trying to prove equivalency... ex-President Trump had a generally adversarial relationship with all mainstream media, if anything Fox was the outlier that didn't asymmetrically cover him. Despite all the hatred, the main stream media depended on Trump to drive the news cycle (easier than finding news to talk/write about).

The outrage about Twitter is because this is just the tip of the iceberg with similar behavior still going on in secret on other social media outlets. Twitter opened the door a crack and this is proving our suspicions about behind the scenes government intervention.

For example look at how little coverage the multiple twitter data drops have garnered.
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Indeed: this is a common "Wall Street Journal" screed, conflating total tax revenue with adjusted percentage of income taxed.

Someone making 50K and paying 20% (10K), compared with someone making 1M and paying 15% (150K). But the rich dude payed 15 times what the poor dude did, right! That's fair!

The class warfare in this one is strong... The progressive US tax system has been well inspected on this forum for years. To repeat, poor people don't create jobs.

JR

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[Matador]

The class warfare in this one is strong...

Percentages are class warfare now?

 

[JohnRoberts]

Percentages are class warfare now?

Attacking the wealthy is by definition class warfare. Top 1% pay 40% of total...that "percentages" .

JR

 

[living sounds]

Progressive taxation is just the theory.

Since Bezos was mentioned:

From 2006 to 2018, when Bezos' wealth increased by $127 billion, he reported a total of $6.5 billion in income. He paid $1.4 billion in personal federal taxes, a true tax rate of 1.1%.

https://www.propublica.org/article/...ds-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax

 

[JohnRoberts]

Progressive taxation is just the theory.

Since Bezos was mentioned:

From 2006 to 2018, when Bezos' wealth increased by $127 billion, he reported a total of $6.5 billion in income. He paid $1.4 billion in personal federal taxes, a true tax rate of 1.1%.

https://www.propublica.org/article/...ds-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax

The exception does not prove the rule... Bezos no doubt has smart tax lawyers and business deductions from his sundry projects (like space travel).

JR

 

[living sounds]

Attacking the wealthy is by definition class warfare. Top 1% pay 40% of total...that "percentages" .

JR

""

"Income" here surely doesn't reflect the actual wealth gained by the top earners, since unrealized profits don't count as income. And as I said, billionaires simply borrow against their ever increasing wealth so they never realize the gains.

 

[living sounds]

Murdoch & Co achieved quite a feat influencing so many people of average means to desperately defend the grifters.

 

[hodad]

Attacking the wealthy is by definition class warfare.

And the wealthy attack the poor and middle class constantly--whether it's through union-busting, unsafe working conditions, or exerting undue influence on the various branches of govt. in order to bend laws and court cases in their direction. That is class warfare.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Progressive taxation is just the theory.

What?

Since Bezos was mentioned:

From 2006 to 2018, when Bezos' wealth increased by $127 billion, he reported a total of $6.5 billion in income. He paid $1.4 billion in personal federal taxes, a true tax rate of 1.1%.

Unrealized (paper) gains are not and should not be taxed. Realized capital gains are taxed at 15% or 20% (if total income over $400k IIRC). If total income is under $80k no capital gains taxes are owed. Capital losses are subtracted from capital gains to compute net gain and that is what is taxed.

So the correct math is that Bezos paid $1.4B on $6.5B in income which is 21.5%.

https://www.propublica.org/article/...ds-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax

Again, Congress can simplify the tax code and eliminate loopholes (complexity makes the system a giant game for CPAs). They won't do it. Many benefit from it.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

And the wealthy attack the poor and middle class constantly--whether it's through union-busting, unsafe working conditions, or exerting undue influence on the various branches of govt. in order to bend laws and court cases in their direction. That is class warfare.

If that's true why do we have so many government programs that support the poor? Why are the bottom 50% paying virtually nothing in taxes? OSHA, EPA, and all manner of regulatory agencies exist to help workers. If "the rich" control government as you imply, why are these large and powerful agencies allowed to exist?

 

[hodad]

If that's true

It is. Do your research. Look up the Federalist Society and their outsized impact on the Supreme Court, or the Koch-founded(and funded) Cato Institute, among others. Heck, what about that guy Soros all you conservatives like to complain about so much?

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Murdoch & Co achieved quite a feat influencing so many people of average means to desperately defend the grifters.

Having been in the upper brackets for some time my viewpoint is different. I worked my butt off to get where I am. I didn't inherit it. I earned, saved, invested, and lived within my means my entire life. The only debt I've carried was a mortgage and a short-term construction loan twenty years ago.

My first job at age 15 was as a part time janitor after school making $2.65 an hour. I was a B+ student in high school. I didn't get any scholarships or other financial assistance to attend University. I went to an in-state school and did OK in engineering. I squeaked into grad school and my grades improved as the courses became more challenging and interesting.

Graduated with an MS during the recession of 1991. Finally got a job at a tiny company in a small city in northern CA. Moved myself cross country and arrived with virtually no funds left. Rented a bedroom in a house for $250/mo. Avoided debt and started my career modestly. Ended up in silicon valley a couple of years later and did 27 tough years in that competitive environment. Retired last year at age 56.

I've paid my taxes and seen a lot of it wasted. Whining from people (especially foreigners) about greedy "rich" people and calling people who've earned their way "grifters" is unconvincing. Get your butt out there and make something happen. Stop blaming everything on people who figured out how to succeed using their blood, sweat, toil, tears, and wits. If I can do it so can you.

 

[hodad]

I didn't get any scholarships or other financial assistance to attend University.

Too bad you can't do that now. I know all too well what tuition costs now, and I recall quite clearly how much cheaper it was when you and I were young. College costs have outstripped inflation substantially since then. Oh, and that minimum wage you were paid in high school was, inflation-adjusted, a lot higher than today's minimum wage.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Too bad you can't do that now. I know all too well what tuition costs now, and I recall quite clearly how much cheaper it was when you and I were young. College costs have outstripped inflation substantially since then. Oh, and that minimum wage you were paid in high school was, inflation-adjusted, a lot higher than today's minimum wage.

And what caused that dramatic increase? Right. Government loan programs. Now Universities are bloated with unnecessary administration and luxury accommodations because of the massive influx of $$$. I lived for five years in the cheapest dorm at my school which was Spartan, to say the least. It was built as temporary housing in the mid 50s and was torn down 91-92 and replaced with shmancy but smaller buildings. We got the government we voted for.

 

[JohnRoberts]

you guys like to argue... Disney in FL just issued new behavior advice to park goers, encouraging guests to "be the magic you want to see in the world" and to always treat others with respect, kindness and compassion.

Sounds like a good resolution for everybody... "Be the magic".

JR

 

[hodad]

you guys like to argue...

Said the pot to the kettles.

 

[Tubetec]

It feels like paying for an argument saying anything here , maybe you should take it over to the 'Argument Clinic' topic I made , charge via pay pal for the service why dont ye ?
Troll-ops

 

[living sounds]

Unrealized (paper) gains are not and should not be taxed.

Why not? The net effect is a massive distortion in favor of those who already have the most.

Why shouldn't unrealized gains of multi-billionaires be taxed?

 

[Brian Roth]

Why not? The net effect is a massive distortion in favor of those who already have the most.

Why shouldn't unrealized gains of multi-billionaires be taxed?

I am a big dummy, but wouldn't taxing unrealized gains impact anyone with a 401K or similar investment account? Talking about working stiffs here....not the billionaires.

Bri

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Why not? The net effect is a massive distortion in favor of those who already have the most.

Distortion of what? Not everything is going to be equal. Ever. Magic thinking and more government aren't going to change that.

Why shouldn't unrealized gains of multi-billionaires be taxed?

Why should they? They're paper. How should unrealized losses be handled? How many more CPAs does the world need? I guess Germans love needless complexity. KISS wins.