Vinyl Lovers? Advice?

[sonicmook56]

Budget as soon as possible for a record cleaner, the ones that you wash with a special solution and then vacuum that off.  It makes a huge difference---many times vinyl is not so much worn as just dirty.

Yikes!  I'm a vinyl fanatic, My collection is pushing well over 600 albums and I've never cleaned a recored better than just blowing off the surface dust.  This is an issue I have been worried about for some time.

RE listening to the current record, BECK did a cool thing in that when you buy the album inside is a coupon to go on-line and download the record transfers from the Vinyl master as 320KBPS MP3's,

I like moves like that 

For instance Steve Albini's band Shellac directly throws in an unmarked CD in the sleeve/box for free when you buy their vinyl.

I've been seeing more and more of this at the record store.  I'm not an MP3 guy, but having a copy of a record I just bought on my iPod is great when I ride my bicycle around town.

It's made me quit buying CD's.  My theory is if the label doesn't release on vinyl, they don't stand behind there product.  Anyone can make a few thousand CD's relatively cheap. mastering and pressing vinyl adds another step....  I've bought a lot of bad CD's but very few bad recording pressed into vinyl.

 

[bcarso]

Just found this
http://www.teresaudio.com/haven/cleaner/cleaner.html

That looks as if it would work well, and it is surely in the spirit of DIY!

I forget what I paid for mine but it was a few hundred.  When I run it I like how it sounds as if I am vacuuming my apartment--- a sound not often heard otherwise from the lair of a confirmed batchelor.

 

[clintrubber]

When I run it I like how it sounds as if I am vacuuming my apartment--- a sound not often heard otherwise from the lair of a confirmed batchelor.

BTW, your messages have always been good for expanding my English vocabulary.
Surprised you even managed to do so with one-syllable words ! 

'Liar' I knew*, but 'lair' was new to me  ;D


*: in the vein of this thread: great record, also available on vinyl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar_(The_Jesus_Lizard_album)

 

[Nele]

RE listening to the current record, BECK did a cool thing in that when you buy the album inside is a coupon to go on-line and download the record transfers from the Vinyl master as 320KBPS MP3's,

I like moves like that 

For instance Steve Albini's band Shellac directly throws in an unmarked CD in the sleeve/box for free when you buy their vinyl.

Yeah , that's cool! Universal audio is doiing the same with their Back to Black series. Just bought Wheels of Fire by Cream and there was a mp3-download-voucher inside ;D

 

[diyfanatic]

Hi Matta,

I'm a vynil addict and I just want to say it's the technics turntable are killers for djing but useless just for listening (not cheap).
try first price in numark TT, direct drive, just change the head shell for something like Ortofon.
for vynil cleaning, dude, just water, soap and soft tissues.

cheers.
Jr.

 

[sonicmook56]

I've noticed much distortion on heavily played records. They are probably ruined from a bad needle.  probably going to get this turntable for myself for xmas.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_033DP300F/Denon-DP-300F.html?tp=200

It's relatively cheap, belt drive and has a moving magnet coil standard.

just need to find the best way to clean records......

 

[Rob Flinn]

I've wanted to try this out maybe its right for you: http://www.altmann.haan.de/turntable/
JP

That looks great, but I'd take a lot of convincing about the wooden tonearm, and the unscreened litz wire.

 

[Rob Flinn]

I use the Goldring 1042 cartridge & stylus.  This was the most expensive MM stylus one could buy when I originally got it, & is known for a clear sound with very solid bass.  I just had to replace the stylus, & that alone was £130 (yikes).    I believe Goldring now have a new range that is supossed to be really good.

I guess £130 isn't that bad compared to the £1000's you could spend on an MC.      I wonder if they sound 10 times better ???

 

[clintrubber]

Talking about turntables, it's obviously a matter of time that someone posts
some overpriced model with the comment that anything less than this won't do.

OK, let it be done with, here goes. And no, this ain't no uranium-centrifuge. Sigh... 

 

[Nele]

Also check the Grado Prestige Gold. Very nice MM-cartridge which is pretty cheap over here (119 euros..). It sounds nice... way better than my Ortofon Pro dj-cartridge 

 

[barclaycon]

Aarghh No. Lets not go back to the days of Hi Fi pontification!!
Gold plated mains plugs. Volcanic rock plinths. Titanium tone arms etc. etc.

As an engineer of some 30 years standing AND someone who used to specialise in restoring audio from old sources (disc, tape, cassette), I can assure you that there is enormous amount of clap-trap spoken about the merits of things which simply aren't important.
I could write volumes about the nonsense I have encountered in this field, but basically before you start using any kind of software restoration - do the best transfer you can.

Get the best copy of the vinyl you can find. Use a record cleaner if you have access to one. (The best one is the Keith Monks Audio). Use a decent deck - The Technics one is fine and is way beyond the spec. of the vinyl platter. Use a reasonable stylus - doesn't have to be anything esoteric, but make sure that the tracking is set up correctly. And by the way, when it comes to weight, slightly heavier is better than lighter.
Use a good RIAA pre-amp feeding a low phase-shift equaliser to give a bit of top-end - this improves  click removal a lot and helps with the noise removal.
In general, vinyl from the 60's was way better than the last days of record manufacture.
Some of the restored stuff from this era can sound great.
I have heard some audio restored from 78's (shellac) which was stunning. You don't realise how great the playing was until you remove the distraction of clicks, pops and noise. It had to be - they didn't have the luxury of doing it over and over again.
Google Robert Parker to see some of his techniques.

 

[NewYorkDave]

Ahem... Like I was saying a few messages back, there's a lot of audiophile snobbery against the Technics turntables--but in MY opinion, they do the job!

 

[Cainester]

No audiophile snob here.
I have a Rega Planar 25, Grado Platinum MM cartridge, and a Lehmann black cube preamp.
In just about every instance where I have an album on LP and CD, the LP wins hands down.
When the album is a half speed master, it is not even a fair race.
I love vinyl so much  :'(

As mentioned earlier, keeping the LP clean is imperative.

In addition to Rega and Thorens, VPI also has a few models that are affordable.

Audiogon.com has a good selection of used gear.

 

[NewYorkDave]

I agree, there's just something about an LP. I enjoy the whole ritual... maybe because I grew up with it.

Slightly off topic, my first turntable was a BSR "changer" my father and I installed in an old Zenith console (replacing the worn-out OEM changer). Later, when I put together my first "component" system with a proper turntable--I think it may've been a Garrard, but I don't remember for sure--I felt like I'd really arrived!

Nothing gives an electronics/music geek the "warm and fuzzies" like memories of his old hi-fi systems!

 

[Walrus]

My first system was a Garrard SP25 Mk3, Teleton SAQ206B amp and Wharfdale Denton speakers, back in the early 70's.
I tried building a valve (tube) amplifier which worked, after a fashion, but had a habit of sparking over in the output valve if you turned up the volume too much!

 

[thermionic]

Some facts about the humble, often-maligned, victim-of-audiophool-snobbery that is the Technics 1200/10:

It was designed by the same team who gave us the SP-02 Motor (retro-fitted to Neumann Lathes - responsible for a high proportion of anyone's vinyl collection)

Rumble is somewhere around -90dB

Wow + Flutter is quoted @ 0.01 %.

Unlike overpriced audiophile OEMs, in my experience, the Japanese have a habit of quoting honest specifications.

Unlike overpriced audiophile OEMs, Technics' design team published AES articles, detailing their research... How many turntable OEMs have done this? It's a small club...

The price has been the same for 20 years...

There is no product on earth that gives as much value-per-pound / dollar as an SL1200 - name me one? For $500 USD you get 12.5 Kgs of precision alloy engineering.

One of life's little pleasures is the smell of a new 1200.

Comparing engineering tolerances on a Technics against certain Czech-made hardware mentioned in this thread would be amusing...

The 1200/10 is still made at the old plant in Japan. There's a video somewhere.

I believe the SL1200/10 is to turntables, what the Honda Vtec engine is to cars; the 'democratisation' of quality engineering.

I really want to get my hands on a rumble meter. My suspicion is that the Tech outperforms numerous TTs costing several times the price in terms of Wow and Rumble.

The Technics is one of those rare instances where a product has become No.1 because it really is good. 3-million sold.

In the new year, I will be doing a shoot-out between several high-end TTs, including the SL1200/10. This is not a 'listening test'. Unlike say, carts or microphones, there is zero subjectivity in turntables: rumble, speed stability and resistance to vibration are all that matters. The rest is just placebo... Hey, if you've spent a King's Ransom, you're going to want it to sound good.

Here's a good page to look at: http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/sp10page.html

I saw a DP100M on Ebay a while back... Maybe I should just get one and bankrupt myself...

Justin

 

[thermionic]

BTW - A client of mine has a stack of expensive turntables costing ten times that of a Technics. He spends most his time listening to the Technics. It does have a Michell arm + external power supply + anti-vibration feet though.

This is a handy link:http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/

Along with the Technics upgrades, there's a preamp gain computer and a few handy things to check out.

edit - KAB have the Shure MX97E for $80 USD!!! Get it while you can... I've taken measurements on a digital scope of the 97E btw - it outperforms carts costing many times more in terms of channel matching and distortion. It isn't the world's most exciting cart, but for $80 USD it probably is the best value.

BTW - Keith Monks' sons still offer the machine! How cool is that? I've long dreamt of owning one.

 

[barclaycon]

Just one final note from me on this subject.
Years ago a very good disc cutting engineer at Decca told me 'You can't get any better than the record itself'.
What does this mean ?
Well, if the hole in the centre of the record is 20 microns out then the wow and flutter is not going to be great.
If the quality of the vinyl is poor or if the press is below spec. then you are going to have rumble no matter how good your turntable or tone arm is.
The signal to noise ratio of a good record is rarely better than -65 dB and is very often comprimised by crackle, low level groove damage or re-cycled vinyl impurities.
So your deck may have cost a fortune and be an objet d'art but it's never going to improve on the disc itself.

I thought we'd gone beyond the Hi-fi snobbery / Golden ears brigade, especially now that people listen to music on mobile phones and mp3's with no dynamic range etc.
If you like vinyl records then that's fine. I often think that the limitations of this medium made for more listenable tracks because you couldn't have too much top end (without distortion and mis-tracking) and phase was something you had to watch very carefully. Mastering engineers had to be innovative with level control to get everything on the lacquer at a decent level.
I had to do a vinyl record last year and it took 3 goes before we got a reasonable pressing from the plant.
I'd forgotten what a pain it could be!

 

[Gold]

My record cleaner is a medium bristle tooth brush and a cup of warm water with a tiny drop of detergent. Rinse and dry.

 

[Gus]

I have hundreds of albums.  I built my own passive eq preamp with polystyrene eq cap and hand selected resistors .  Have a nice JVC direct drive platter matter and clamp.  Grados, cleaner and pads and I even had the little air shock that attached to the head shell, last, piezo static gun, static cleaning brushes.  Homemade two point alignment jig.  needle angle jig etc. late 70's ealy 80's

cart to pre to two volume controls to the amp to the speaker with polypro crossover etc. caps

You know I don't miss vinyl all that much.  The bass was more or less mono and the cutting had to be limited so the needle did not jump out of the track.  The inside vs the outside of the Album.

I think why people like vinyl is due to a few things.  When mastered it was made so people could play the vinyl remember the coins taped/glued to the head shell to keep the needle in the groove from warps and things?
I believe it adds a "rumble" or something to the sound.
  The record player dust cover, talk on the cover with the needle on the record and not turning could you heard yourself in the speakers?  Walk and things skipped.  You are limited to how much and how the groove was cut.  RIAA playback EQ often did not match and sometimes the "good" stufff had errrors that people liked.

Yeh I read the Audio critic and Audio and TAA and other underground stuff.  Most a waste of time

Maybe what someone should do is do a model of the record player,  groove limits etc and cut a CD like that.

Now I am not saying CDs are better but IMO if well done thay can sound better than albums.  Well done is the problem some later 80s sound good before things got crazy.

Yes there is fun flipping the Album ever 20 or so mins hanging with friends in a basement with what ever else is going on.