Voice recording microphone recommendation

[Toobme]

Just record cam audio and use a recorder or your cpu for the dedicated mic.
Then sync in DaVinci Resolve - auto-align clips!
Super nice function, and gives you dual-system.
No clapboard needed, unless shooting many scenes/days, etc.

Don’t mention timecode, and all that!

 

[k brown]

Shotgun mics (long or short) are not "a form of hypercardioid pattern".

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Short tube on short shotguns, longer tube on longer shotguns.
Both use a form of hyper cardioid pattern.

Not really.
Any cardioid variation is 1st-order (one lobe).
Shotguns are higher order (multiple lobes)

Use a dynamic, forget shotguns or hypers ir any condensor for now.

What's so wrong with condenser mics here?

 

[k brown]

To wit:

 

[abbey road d enfer]

To wit:

Actually, it's the polar at one frequency, but, by construction, polar response varies a lot with frequency. In other words, sounds picked-up off axis are subject to large variations.

 

[Andybb]

The new version of the Rode NT1 - THIS ONE - looks like it might fit your requirements. Offers both USB and XLR, and includes an audio interface among several useful other voice recording features.
Not sure why you say 'dynamic preferred' because of your untreated room?
It's the mic pick up pattern and frequency response - rather than the transducer type - that will affect its response to the room acoustics

Do you think the sensitivity of condensers could be a factor why dynamics are often recommended and used in untreated rooms? You could search and check me.

Thanks for the reply!

I am a beginner, so I might be wrong here, but this is my current understanding of the situation. I was under the impression that condenser microphones (like the new Rode NT1) are sensitive to a wider range of frequencies. This is great for music recording for example, but might not be great for slightly noisy untreated rooms. Dynamic microphones are less susceptible to this and pick up less noise, while providing more "bassy" voice recordings.

If understand correctly, the pick up pattern defines the directional gain, while the transducer determines the frequency response regardless of angles.

Am I wrong?
Thanks.

No you’re not wrong. The sensitivity is the
biggest issue. It’s too bad you can’t budget for a good dynamic like a used re-20.
That puts you into a really good mic.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Do you think the sensitivity of condensers could be a factor why dynamics are often recommended and used in untreated rooms? You could search and check me.

They could also just apply less gain to a condenser and get closer to it. Sensitivity as a spec is how much gain it requires.

 

[k brown]

Do you think the sensitivity of condensers could be a factor why dynamics are often recommended and used in untreated rooms? You could search and check me.

No you’re not wrong. The sensitivity is the
biggest issue. It’s too bad you can’t budget for a good dynamic like a used re-20.
That puts you into a really good mic.

Irrelevancy of dynamic vs condenser was already addressed is post #8; only pattern matters.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

The big difference between most dynamics and condenser types is the latter's much extended frequency response, which makes extraneous noises more pregnant. A little adequate filtering easily solves the issue, but it requires some resources and competence, more than just plugging and expecting it works.
It's about the same issue as the common preference for an SM58 over a KMS105 in PA applications, or SM57's on drums vs. SDC.
Staying on the beaten track gives decent results with not much effort, but going off the beaten track results in excellence - or disaster.
It takes some work, but that's the reason why top-flight SE's engineers favour condensers over dynamics in many cases. And average ones use the same proven recipes.
I must say I got excellent results using an SM7B on vocals, though. And horrible ones with a Rode Procaster, also a dynamic.
Which shows that the demarcation line is not so precisely clear cut.

 

[Toobme]

Talking at cross purposes here.

We all agree that a shotgun is a slang term, not a pattern.

I will always recommend that a beginner start with a dynamic.
Someone recommended a hyper and that is great as well.

Patterns aside, the dynamic may end up more useable considering room, experience level, and needed reach and/or width.

I don’t know why the talk of shotguns started.
The OP is not doing dialog for moving image, they are doing podcasty stuff.

Do what ever works - if it sounds great, it probably is great.

The budget was stated, as was the purpose.
My suggestion of a 57, 58, or the like still stands.

If we wanna talk location dialog, I’m an on-set veteran and would chime in another way!
You’ll still need to digitize the signal, but at least you’ll have a mic that’ll last forever and be useful through its life, unlike many of the all-in-one usb mics out there.


As always, have fun with it!

 

[kags]

At the start of the pandemic I had a lot of clients who wanted to set up ZOOM type setups for communicating with friends and co-workers. These are audio professionals who want to sound better than the average person online, so I did several shootouts with probably over 30 microphones and mostly using cheap USB interfaces as preamps. Most of my friends have good mics and the interface was just a convenience for the online setups without stealing good studio gear.

My overall favorite voiceover mic was by far the KM84 or KM184. However nobody wound up using these because they picked up too much room tone and background noise.

The most favored choices for my clients when weighing sonics vs. useability for voiceover in a home setting were (in no order) SM7b, SM57/58, Blue Yeti , and AudioTechnica 2020 or 2040. People seem to like the Audio Technica 5040 that lives on my ZOOM setup, but that is way overkill for most non-critical voice capture. Lavaliers sounded good (even sub-$100 ones) but had too much handling noise and that damn wire, so most people didn't like that idea. I did like the sound of the Mojave Ma-37 for close voice, but it was also overkill for a ZOOM setup. I would use the Ma-37 for interview work, though!

I've been wanting to try one of the Deity short shotguns for a ZOOM setup, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

At the start of the pandemic I had a lot of clients who wanted to set up ZOOM type setups for communicating with friends and co-workers. These are audio professionals who want to sound better than the average person online, so I did several shootouts with probably over 30 microphones and mostly using cheap USB interfaces as preamps. Most of my friends have good mics and the interface was just a convenience for the online setups without stealing good studio gear.

My overall favorite voiceover mic was by far the KM84 or KM184. However nobody wound up using these because they picked up too much room tone and background noise.

The most favored choices for my clients when weighing sonics vs. useability for voiceover in a home setting were (in no order) SM7b, SM57/58, Blue Yeti , and AudioTechnica 2020 or 2040. People seem to like the Audio Technica 5040 that lives on my ZOOM setup, but that is way overkill for most non-critical voice capture. Lavaliers sounded good (even sub-$100 ones) but had too much handling noise and that damn wire, so most people didn't like that idea. I did like the sound of the Mojave Ma-37 for close voice, but it was also overkill for a ZOOM setup. I would use the Ma-37 for interview work, though!

I've been wanting to try one of the Deity short shotguns for a ZOOM setup, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

The Deity S-Mic 2S is hot garbage. Literally the noisiest mic I've ever used, and I've seen other people who've used them say the same thing. Deity didn't respond to me contacting them about it either, I didn't particularly like the regular S-Mic 2 either, my experience was bad enough between all of that I don't think I'll ever touch another Deity product. If I were going for a short shotgun that's cheap I'd grab an AT875R or a Rode VideoMic NTG.

 

[k brown]

Talking at cross purposes here.

We all agree that a shotgun is a slang term, not a pattern.

I will always recommend that a beginner start with a dynamic.
Someone recommended a hyper and that is great as well.

Patterns aside, the dynamic may end up more useable considering room, experience level, and needed reach and/or width.

I don’t know why the talk of shotguns started.
The OP is not doing dialog for moving image, they are doing podcasty stuff.

Do what ever works - if it sounds great, it probably is great.

The budget was stated, as was the purpose.
My suggestion of a 57, 58, or the like still stands.

If we wanna talk location dialog, I’m an on-set veteran and would chime in another way!
You’ll still need to digitize the signal, but at least you’ll have a mic that’ll last forever and be useful through its life, unlike many of the all-in-one usb mics out there.


As always, have fun with it!

"Shotgun" is NOT slang - it's an industry-wide term for a family of microphones with slightly differing patterns; all using an interference tube in front of the capsule.

https://schoeps.de/en/products/shotgun-microphones.html
Schoeps doesn't go in much for slang to describe their products.

 

[kags]

The Deity S-Mic 2S is hot garbage. Literally the noisiest mic I've ever used, and I've seen other people who've used them say the same thing. Deity didn't respond to me contacting them about it either, I didn't particularly like the regular S-Mic 2 either, my experience was bad enough between all of that I don't think I'll ever touch another Deity product. If I were going for a short shotgun that's cheap I'd grab an AT875R or a Rode VideoMic NTG.

Good to know - thanks for the tip! I'll stick with the Senn 416 behemoth!

 

[nick_t]

The big difference between most dynamics and condenser types is the latter's much extended frequency response, which makes extraneous noises more pregnant.

Large diaphragm condensers often have a wider cardioid pattern than dynamics, particularly as frequency rises.

At 90 degrees, an SM58 is an extra 2 to 7db down between 1k and 8k, compared to a U87 in cardioid mode.

LDCs are next to useless on vocals in many live scenarios because there’s too much spill. Same reason they’re not preferred if the goal is to minimise room sound.

 

[Ivan K.]

Hi, Perhaps I missed the thread, but as a former film sound mixer, an MKH 416 is a great mic to use if you are recording one or two individuals. The problem with this and high output condenser microphones in general, is overloading the mic pre. The mic pre gain has to be adjustable and will probably have about 20 dB less gain than a mic pre set for a dynamic mic. This of course depends on the nature of the speech--is it dynamic with shouts & whispers or normal talking voice?

The mic pre gain has to be adjustable at the very 1st stage of the mic pre as it does no good downstream when the input is already overloaded. I have found the best combination in a mic pre is one with feedback for lower gain/noise, along with variable pads to set a range.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Hi, Perhaps I missed the thread, but as a former film sound mixer, an MKH 416 is a great mic to use if you are recording one or two individuals. The problem with this and high output condenser microphones in general, is overloading the mic pre. The mic pre gain has to be adjustable and will probably have about 20 dB less gain than a mic pre set for a dynamic mic. This of course depends on the nature of the speech--is it dynamic with shouts & whispers or normal talking voice?

The mic pre gain has to be adjustable at the very 1st stage of the mic pre as it does no good downstream when the input is already overloaded. I have found the best combination in a mic pre is one with feedback for lower gain/noise, along with variable pads to set a range.

OP's got a budget of $250. The best they can get is a used Behringer UMC404HD and an AT875R if they want a shotgun mic. They could also get the same interface and a Line Audio CM4. Or they could go for a cheaper Interface and a slightly nicer mic, but I think at best they're gonna be able to get a used Behringer UMC204HD and maybe they can find an Oktava MK-012 for cheap (I think the hypercardioid set without the high cut is like $200).

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Large diaphragm condensers often have a wider cardioid pattern than dynamics, particularly as frequency rises.

Actually, almost all cardioid mics are true cardioids only below about 1kHz. Above that, they become more and more hypercardioid. The transition frequency depends on the diaphragm size, the larger the lower the frequency where directivity changes.
Hypercardioid mics pick up less room sound, but one must distinguish between nasty reflections (flutter echo) and those that are constructive (early reflections), so it maybe that the directivity pattern may influence the ratio between good and bad reflections.
A fair evaluation would be a comparison between a condenser LDC and a dynamic LDC. I have both but all my rooms are treated acoustically, in such a way that I can use omnis without any issues.

 

[Lampie519]

Interesting reads:

https://ledgernote.com/columns/studio-recording/types-of-microphones/
https://archive.org/details/manualsbase-id-402847

 

[Tubetec]

One of the potential downsides with condenser mics is sensivity to environmental conditions ,humidity ,moisture etc . Tube mics in my experience have the additional benefit that they opperate above ambient temp , that greatly reduces the chances of condensation occuring on the capsule .
Fet and transistor mics dont generate much heat so they can be prone to condensation until they come upto room temp , any small contamination due to dust on the capsule harbours moisture and can cause loud crackles and pops , this was often an issue with the AKG 414 .
Allowing time for condenser mics to come upto room temp or above if tube is always a good plan before pressing record .