We really need to start having a serious conversation about this....

[AnalogPackrat]

I'm not easily offended. I cuss, especially when I screw something up or bust my knuckles wrenching on something. Or when hanging out with friends. I just don't see it as a useful thing in most rational discourse. Some seem to think it enhances their point or something.

 

[Tubetec]

A quick witted turn of phrase with a few carbide tipped nuggets of wisdom thrown in
is good enough , there should be no need to bring it down to F-ing and blinding at each other ,

 

[JohnRoberts]

I just saw a news item suggesting that AI could displace 300 million workers... that will cause a disturbance in modern culture.
===
I have seen alternate opinions that it could lead to less fake news, or more (deep fakes, etc).

===
These are apparently the good old days (before AI), so enjoy while you can.

JR

 

[user 37518]

These are apparently the good old days (before AI), so enjoy while you can.

JR

That is exactly what I was thinking the other day. It looks to me that this thing is going to be abused beyond its limits. For example, I, who teach, know that students will completely abuse AI to get away with solving problems with minimal effort. People are already lazy, they don't want to remember anything since they can just ask Siri or Alexa; ChatGPT and the soon to come AI will be much more worse in this aspect.

I can't help but think about that Star Trek episode, in which, the Enterprise arrives at a planet where a super computer, much like ChatGPT, was used by all to basically perform every task. After many decades, the inhabitants of the planet became lazy and stopped trying to remember things or to even think by themselves. It came to a point where the computer failed and no one knew how to repair it. It sounds prophetic.

I don't know exactly what will happen but I do foresee that humanity will be hugely impacted by this.

 

[JohnRoberts]

That is exactly what I was thinking the other day. It looks to me that this thing is going to be abused beyond its limits. For example, I, who teach, know that students will completely abuse AI to get away with solving problems with minimal effort. People are already lazy, they don't want to remember anything since they can just ask Siri or Alexa; ChatGPT and the soon to come AI will be much more worse in this aspect.

I can't help but think about that Star Trek episode, in which, the Enterprise arrives at a planet where a super computer, much like ChatGPT, was used by all to basically perform every task. After many decades, the inhabitants of the planet became lazy and stopped trying to remember things or to even think by themselves. It came to a point where the computer failed and no one knew how to repair it. It sounds prophetic.

I don't know exactly what will happen but I do foresee that humanity will be hugely impacted by this.

There is a classic science fiction story, probably Assimov or somebody like that, where some future society rediscovers algebra and it frees them from the computing machines.
[edit- actual story synopsis quite different... Asimov opposed to militarization of computing. /edit]

JR

 

[user 37518]

There is a classic science fiction story, probably Assimov or somebody like that, where some future society rediscovers algebra and it frees them from the computing machines.
[edit- actual story synopsis quite different... Asimov opposed to militarization of computing. /edit]

JR

Do you remember the name? Would love to watch/read it.

Edit: is it this one The Feeling of Power ?

 

[JohnRoberts]

Do you remember the name? Would love to watch/read it.

IIRC it was a short story in a compendium of multiple SF short stories...

The Asimov story I found doing a search was an anti-militarization rant but not out of step for the 60s. Something like using human inside missiles to aim them instead of valuable computers, but that does not sound like the same story.

JR

 

[crazydoc]

I reckon this is it:

https://urbigenous.net/library/power.html

 

[Tubetec]

But theres many themes in Sci-fi that are even more relevent now than they were then ,
you've been subsumed , assimilated , the technology is the bait , hook and leash .
Mainstream social media is the Borg , in case anyone hadnt noticed .

And yet its we feed it ......

 

[JohnRoberts]

I reckon this is it:

https://urbigenous.net/library/power.html

yup... that's the one... I thought I remembered a happier ending but that sounds right for the times.

JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

For an interesting piece of sci-fi related to how societies handle dangerous technological advancements I highly recommend Neal Stephenson's Anathem. Some of the ideas he explores were inspired by Roger Penrose (of Penrose Tiles fame) who authored an interesting treatise on AI in 1989; The Emperor's New Mind argues that human intelligence has a quantum basis that cannot be replicated by algorithms running on a Turing machine. Of course then you'll want to read Hofstadter's Godel, Escher, Bach; An Eternal Golden Braid and several other similar books.

 

[Matador]

For example, I, who teach, know that students will completely abuse AI to get away with solving problems with minimal effort.

Didn't you previously say the professors are lazy? So both the students and the professors are lazy? I feel this may more be describing the nature of how we teach students, and how we hire professors, rather than the evils of AI. If memory serves, the same thing was said about the portable pocket calculator, rendering the need to learn arithmetic obsolete.

This is already being banded about as a problem with respect to the bar exam, which various flavors of ChapGPT are already passing with nearly 90% success rate (yes, even the essay sections!). this begs the question: is the bar exam really exercising understanding and ability to practice law? I deal with legal issues day in and day out as (one of) my day jobs, and 90% of the work is not based on understanding the nuances of estoppel, because that is a well tread and extensively written topic, which can just be looked up when needed (which is exactly why ChatGPT is good at it).

Computer science (and even electrical engineering) follow the same trajectory. Being able to partially differentiate a complex function isn't a skill that is useful in 99.999999% of work that people actually do, and likely has already been done by thousands of people before, which is why ChatGPT can also do it easily. In my 12 years of graduate education, I've done it countless times in the schooling context, and not a single time in the professional context. In fact, I hadn't studied math extensively until it was time to my my PhD thesis, and I discovered the math I needed wasn't readily available, and thus I had to derive it (e.g. the entire point of a PhD). The number of people working day-to-day in novel mathematical concepts in science and engineering are a minuscule portion of the workforce, yet it's a focus in education.

ChatGPT will never be able to teach you how to abide by a deadline, or deal with a co-worker who is a dickhead, how to make it through a code review, or even where to place the connectors on your PCB so that it fits into the case properly, or how to navigate complex political machinations between VP's, which in totality cover about 85% of working in any technology field.

 

[Tubetec]

The mobile phone and text message has fundamentally changed the way we communicate ,
its been by word of mouth for the last million years , everyone having a listening device in their pocket now, with any number of apps playing pinnochio ,
Were moving targets for advertising , the A.I. recalculates everytime we touch it.

 

[crazydoc]

From the story: "The congressman took out his pocket computer, nudged the milled edges twice, looked at its face as it lay there in the palm of his hand, and put it back."

I wonder if it could make a phone call too.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Didn't you previously say the professors are lazy? So both the students and the professors are lazy?

In my experience more students were lazy than professors, but this was 30-40 years ago when Universities were still mostly serious institutions with a few outliers (at least in the STEM and professional career paths like education, nursing, finance, and accounting). Based on my recent experience with new grads things have changed.

I feel this may more be describing the nature of how we teach students, and how we hire professors, rather than the evils of AI.

Perhaps, except how would you teach large numbers of students differently that would prevent cheating using AI? In a situation with small teacher to student ratios it might be possible, but that isn't realistic. What do you propose?

If memory serves, the same thing was said about the portable pocket calculator, rendering the need to learn arithmetic obsolete.

Yes, and how many people can do simple arithmetic in their head these days? How many cashiers (many with college degrees in the humanities) can make proper change without a cash register computing it? Right.

This is already being banded about as a problem with respect to the bar exam, which various flavors of ChapGPT are already passing with nearly 90% success rate (yes, even the essay sections!). this begs the question: is the bar exam really exercising understanding and ability to practice law? I deal with legal issues day in and day out as (one of) my day jobs, and 90% of the work is not based on understanding the nuances of estoppel, because that is a well tread and extensively written topic, which can just be looked up when needed (which is exactly why ChatGPT is good at it).

Sure, but just because AI might not (yet) replace your job, it certainly can replace many of your coworkers.

Computer science (and even electrical engineering) follow the same trajectory. Being able to partially differentiate a complex function isn't a skill that is useful in 99.999999% of work that people actually do,

True, but understanding the concepts involved do expand the mind and teach us to solve difficult problems systematically.

and likely has already been done by thousands of people before, which is why ChatGPT can also do it easily.

I'm not sure thst is why GPT is capable of doing it. A single instance in its training set is sufficient.

In my 12 years of graduate education, I've done it countless times in the schooling context, and not a single time in the professional context.

Neither have I. But a STEM education can't predict everything you'll need (or not). There are valid arguments about topics that are less useful, but a broader exposure to different types of problems and different methods of solving them (or approximating solutions) is highly valuable. I never needed calculus or DiffEq in my career. But I worked with mechanical, optical, and electrical engineers who did.

In fact, I hadn't studied math extensively until it was time to my my PhD thesis, and I discovered the math I needed wasn't readily available, and thus I had to derive it (e.g. the entire point of a PhD). The number of people working day-to-day in novel mathematical concepts in science and engineering are a minuscule portion of the workforce, yet it's a focus in education.

Novel mathematical concepts weren't a focus in my undergraduate education. Most math we were taught had proven practical applications. In grad school I minored in math and took some pretty wild grad level math classes. Even then I ended up using some of that in my MS thesis (graph theoretic approches to pattern recognition).

ChatGPT will never be able to teach you how to abide by a deadline, or deal with a co-worker who is a dickhead, how to make it through a code review,

But it might replace enough of middle management and your coworkers that those skills become irrelevant.

or even where to place the connectors on your PCB so that it fits into the case properly,

I'm sure it could.

or how to navigate complex political machinations between VP's, which in totality cover about 85% of working in any technology field.

Again, much of that becomes irrelevant when most of those humans are replaced by AI. Do you think an AI program manager won't see right through the typical BS excuses a lazy employee gives for being late, doing substandard work, etc?

 

[Tubetec]

We gave up the parish priest to tell our sins too ,
traded God for Google, Facebook and Twitter ,
Its like shooting fish in a barrel from here on in for them ,

 

[JohnRoberts]

Being lazy is the mother of invention.

JR

 

[user 37518]

Didn't you previously say the professors are lazy? So both the students and the professors are lazy? I feel this may more be describing the nature of how we teach students, and how we hire professors, rather than the evils of AI. If memory serves, the same thing was said about the portable pocket calculator, rendering the need to learn arithmetic obsolete.

Please don't take me out of context. I said that professors were lazy specifically when it comes to changing what they have been teaching for decades, not that professors are lazy for everything. Again, you are taking me out of context, for what? Engage in a useless argument? Stop twisting the truth for your convenience.

 

[Matador]

Engage in a useless argument?

In my defense useless arguments are the currency of the Brewery, y yo soy rico tambien!

 

[user 37518]

y yo soy rico tambien!

You are right about that