Wondering

[hodad]

I Voted for Trump and DeSantis—and Now Regret It. Here’s How Democrats Can Appeal to Voters Like Me.

I have often wondered what it would take for relatively intelligent and sensible Republicans to get disgusted with the antics of their own party. At what point does “winning” cease to be the only thing that matters? How much of their democracy are they willing to sacrifice in order to ”own the libs?”

 

[fallout]

What would it take? First and foremost, it's not about winning. It's about focusing on issues that matter to me and my family. Some examples are the economy, energy independence, and LEGAL immigration to name a few.

I couldn't care less about transgender issues, white guilt, race baiting, identity politics, forced mandates, liberal causes, lgbt, etc.. in the grand scheme of things, they just don't matter to ME. So when democrats focus on things that actually MATTER, maybe I'll listen.

That said, I'm not a fan of US politics in general. Both sides pretty much suck but my personal views lean more right.

You'll be hard pressed to find anyone, regardless of their political views, to agree that things are going well under the current administration. You can't blame Trump for everything.

So to answer your question.. It would take A LOT for me to even consider listening to the American left.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Good luck with that.. . I just saw a sound bite from Bernie Sanders saying that all but the hard core right wing republicans could be flipped to join the democratic party ( I guess I know what Bernie thinks I am). Meanwhile Tulsi Gabbard, former democratic representative from Hawaii has just very publicly quit the democratic party.

Former Democratic House member and presidential candidate Tulsi Gabbard announced she was leaving the party Tuesday — blasting it as an “an elitist cabal” driven by “cowardly wokeness” and trading in “anti-white racism.”

I consider myself a relatively intelligent and sensible Republican. I am disgusted by the democratic party, but republicans are not without sin. It's time for the Democrats to drop their October surprise. What, they already did?

JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

As a staunch anti-authoritarian, pro small government, independent voter who used to lean D, it will take an awful lot for me to vote for a Democrat again. The "trauma" over the past decade has mostly been caused by big and bigger government, too much compromise on core American values, and in the last few years, absolute insanity on the left.

No concern for border security, soft on crime, soft on drugs, gun-grabbing, over-regulation (CA leads the way), naked government power (lock downs, mask mandates, "essential business" favoritism, experimental "vaccine" mandates), hatred of American history, backing censorship (on topics from Covid to BLM to climate change...), partnership with big tech for control, all are examples of neo-Dem policies that are contrary to my beliefs. Almost anything would be a better choice than to support these policies. That is why Trump won in 2016 and, if anything, people are more fed up now than they were then. Is anyone better off today than they were in 2019 or even 2020?

 

[fallout]

This is where the left is.. I mean, c'mon. Is this not beyond ridiculous?

https://nypost.com/2022/10/14/mike-itkis-stars-in-porn-to-show-sex-positive-agenda/

 

[pucho812]

This is where the left is.. I mean, c'mon. Is this not beyond ridiculous?

https://nypost.com/2022/10/14/mike-itkis-stars-in-porn-to-show-sex-positive-agenda/

About the only action his campaign will have

 

[chilidawg]

This is where the left is.. I mean, c'mon. Is this not beyond ridiculous?

https://nypost.com/2022/10/14/mike-itkis-stars-in-porn-to-show-sex-positive-agenda/

So many porn stars and he picked that one...

 

[Recording Engineer]

That said, I'm not a fan of US politics in general. Both sides pretty much suck but my personal views lean more right..

It used to be that leaning some left or right was reasonable and acceptable. However, throughout my lifetime, I’ve slowly seen that erode and now extremism one way or the other seems to be the only acceptable way.

 

[pucho812]

So many porn stars and he picked that one...

I had to look her up.

 

[hodad]

I'm sure some of you still detest Fiona Hill, but this is an interesting and lengthy interview on Putin, Ukraine, and related matters. The bit about Elon Musk referenced in the headline is just a minor part of the interview, and far less interesting than the rest of it.

Fiona Hill: ‘Elon Musk Is Transmitting a Message for Putin’

 

[Matador]

I have often wondered what it would take for relatively intelligent and sensible Republicans to get disgusted with the antics of their own party.

How long? Nobody can say for certain. All I know is the heat death of the solar system will happen in about 4 billion years...so there is a book-end!

 

[rob_gould]

This is where the left is.. I mean, c'mon. Is this not beyond ridiculous?

https://nypost.com/2022/10/14/mike-itkis-stars-in-porn-to-show-sex-positive-agenda/

Snap!

 

[JohnRoberts]

I wouldn't vote for him, because he is a dumb ass (caught masturbating in his car watching internet porn on his smart phone). At least he didn't do it during a zoom session, but still cancelling himself.

JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

It used to be that leaning some left or right was reasonable and acceptable. However, throughout my lifetime, I’ve slowly seen that erode and now extremism one way or the other seems to be the only acceptable way.

"Leaning left" didn't used to mean being anti-Bill of Rights, either. But that's where we are. The neo-Dems are as bad as the neo-conmen of the Bush-Cheney era. If you "lean left" and support anti-Constitutional policies, maybe you need a new plumb bob. That's why I won't be voting Dem any time soon. The moderates in that party, if there are any left, are either hiding from or hanging out with the extreme wing. Meanwhile there are plenty of sensible folks on the "conservative" side.

For reference, here's a plot from govtrack.us showing the ideological spread of the current Congress. Note the spread on the x-axis (ideology) which clearly indicates more Rs in the middle half and more Ds in the far left quarter. Other analyses show similar results. For the record, I think govtrack's "leadership" score is BS as it purely relates to sponsorship for new bills which has nothing to do with what I consider true leadership in Congress.

 

[Recording Engineer]

"Leaning left" didn't used to mean being anti-Bill of Rights, either. But that's where we are.

Insert any narrative of any issue from either side, here:

The moderates in that party, if there are any left, are either hiding from or hanging out with the extreme wing.

I see the same in the right party just as much.

Meanwhile there are plenty of sensible folks on the "conservative" side.

If that’s the case, then I see just as many on the other side.

What I’m trying to say is: All this is neither here nor there and these points of view are no more “true” than mine or anyone else’s. People see what they want to see. To me, you prove my point and you probably think I prove yours. No harm, no foul.

 

[boji]

We are all victims of selective evaluation, but need to believe otherwise so to make arguments that align with our sense of identity and belonging.
Contradictory evidence is difficult to obtain because it competes with our habits, user experience and uptime, which is just another way of saying we've been algorithmically bagged and tagged.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Insert any narrative of any issue from either side, here:

So you think the majority of Democrats support freedom of speech, freedom of association, 2A rights, and privacy rights? What you seem to see as some sort of virtuous "I'm in the middle" on moral high ground, I see as some combination of apathy, indecisiveness, relativism, and denial. Some issues actually have deep import and are not up for negotiation in a free nation.

I see the same in the right party just as much.

Look at the data.

If that’s the case, then I see just as many on the other side.

Look at the data and stop with the simplistic relativistic "argument."

What I’m trying to say is: All this is neither here nor there and these points of view are no more “true” than mine or anyone else’s.

Moral relativism is weak.

People see what they want to see.

Baseless over-generalization.

To me, you prove my point and you probably think I prove yours. No harm, no foul.

More relativism. There is harm (bad policies lead to economic damage, crime, higher taxes, loss of freedom, etc.).

 

[fallout]

Snap!

So what's your point exactly? Is this guy's political platform pro-masturbation in public or something? Not sure I understand the comparison.

 

[Recording Engineer]

So you think the majority of Democrats support freedom of speech, freedom of association, 2A rights, and privacy rights? What you seem to see as some sort of virtuous "I'm in the middle" on moral high ground, I see as some combination of apathy, indecisiveness, relativism, and denial. Some issues actually have deep import and are not up for negotiation in a free nation.

You ignored my original point (or maybe you proved my point yet again) and tried to make it what it was not. Then, you seemed to purposefully twist my subsequent point. That’s ok. We can talk about what you’re speaking.

Yes. I also think the majority of Republicans do. Overall, I will say the majority of Americans support such things.

You can keep weaponizing and putting down my reasonableness all you want. It still doesn’t change how, to me, you consistently display your blindness with your apparently, newfound love fest, with the conservative party.

Look at the data.


Look at the data and stop with the simplistic relativistic "argument."

The data you presented only shows one thing. All the rest is nothing more than the narrative anyone wants to present.

 

[scott2000]

contradictory evidence is difficult to obtain because it competes with our habits, user experience and uptime, which is just another way of saying we've been algorithmically bagged and tagged.

Keep making that face and it'll freeze that way...