Are the Lewitt Mics on AliExpress real or counterfeits?

[ZHOUJUN]

I'm glad you let me know about Takstar's experience before 2002. I first knew Takstar in 2002, when they were still a very small company. I'm sorry, I don't want to do any advertising for them, I just want to state a part of their history. The webpage is in Chinese and needs to be translated.
https://www.takstar.com/news/1373.html
https://www.cfbond.com/2023/03/09/wap_991007947.html?isapp=true
https://roll.sohu.com/a/673199167_100011043

 

[soliloqueen]

I'm glad you let me know about Takstar's experience before 2002. I first knew Takstar in 2002, when they were still a very small company. I'm sorry, I don't want to do any advertising for them, I just want to state a part of their history. The webpage is in Chinese and needs to be translated.
https://www.takstar.com/news/1373.html

takstar does really incredible work, and i know many of the engineers there as peers. there's a reason why it's the only company european mic companies bother to outsource to. they are undoubtedly the absolute best oem microphone manufacturer in china. it's not even close.

 

[soliloqueen]

Twenty-eight years of hard work and dedication, twenty-eight years of spring blossoms and autumn fruits.

Another year at the turn of spring and summer, Guangdong Desheng Electronics Co., Ltd. celebrates its 28th anniversary.

In May 1995, Guangdong Desheng Electronics Co., Ltd. was established, thus beginning a path of intensive cultivation in the electroacoustic industry—from the acquisition of a microphone factory on the verge of collapse in 1995, to the commissioning of the 29,375-square-meter Desheng Industrial Park in 2007, and the construction of the 176,042-square-meter Desheng Entrepreneurship Park in 2015. Desheng has always kept pace with the times, steadily expanding its production area, gradually building a modern new factory covering an area of more than 200,000 square meters, and becoming one of the world's largest production bases for audio products.





In the 28 years of hard work, Desheng has delivered a solid track record: it has repeatedly been ranked among the top 500 manufacturing enterprises in Guangdong Province, passed the certification of “National High-tech Enterprise” and “National Intellectual Property Advantage Enterprise”, and has been awarded honorary titles such as China Well-known Trademark, Guangdong Famous Trademark, and Guangdong Excellent Brand Demonstration Enterprise.





In the midst of the trend, one must take control of the rudder.

In the 1990s, karaoke became a popular entertainment activity in China, and electroacoustic products such as microphones faced huge market demand. Mr. Yang Huilong in 1995 caught the wave and conducted in-depth market research, keenly aware of the importance of building a proprietary brand. While taking over the microphone factory, he set about developing his own brand, and Desheng was born. In the first month of being on the market, the brand achieved a turnover of 530,000 yuan, and within two years, sales doubled every month.





When the tide goes out, don't be a skinny dipper.

In 1999, with the unregulated development of the microphone market intensifying and the karaoke craze cooling down, the microphone market entered a period of stagnation. After in-depth research, it was found that the saturation of the microphone market at that time was only with respect to ordinary consumer products. To avoid being swept away by the “tide”, Desheng had to tap the market potential and invest in technological research and development. Therefore, Desheng embarked on the innovative path of transforming its microphone products from consumer-oriented to professional-oriented, introduced new talent, established a first-class acoustic research institute and central laboratory, and invested heavily in the introduction of advanced equipment and instruments to transform and upgrade its technology. Through this transformation and reform, Desheng once again ushered in a period of prosperity, and at the same time, the strong R&D reserves also laid a solid foundation for subsequent development.





Keeping pace with the times sparks a surge of momentum.

Keeping up with the times is always the main focus of the company. Desheng has always placed product quality at the center of its operations. This insistence has laid a solid foundation for the company to respond quickly to the ever-changing market environment. At the same time, this strong foundation and strength is also the driving force behind Desheng's ability to seize development opportunities.

In the future, Desheng will differentiate between its own brand and OEM production, achieving “walking on two legs” and forming two fleets, to further advance into the “high-end” industry.





Accompany DeSheng as it safeguards your sound.

Twenty-eight years of working together. DeSheng has established distribution and service points in more than 30 provinces and cities in China, and authorized after-sales service centers in 28 provinces and cities. In the 28 years since the company was established, it has established cooperative relationships with distributors in 47 countries in Asia, the Americas, Europe and Africa, with the aim of providing better and faster consultation and service to users.

Looking back on the past and looking at the present. As an industry leader, Desheng will continue to uphold the cultural values of innovation, efficiency, sharing and responsibility, carry on the mission of a national brand, join forces with peers to create a virtuous ecosystem for domestic brands, promote the positive development of the industry, and make long-term contributions to the development of the electroacoustic industry.

translated this. It should be noted that DeSheng (Takstar) is not related to DeSheng (ASTDS) the transformer company, I don't think.

 

[ZHOUJUN]

translated this. It should be noted that DeSheng (Takstar) is not related to DeSheng (ASTDS) the transformer company, I don't think.

As far as I know, Desheng (Takstar) does not have any relationship with Transformer Company ASTDS, which is another company established in Dongguan, Guangdong, China, specializing in Transformers manufacturing.

 

[ZHOUJUN]

takstar does really incredible work, and i know many of the engineers there as peers. there's a reason why it's the only company european mic companies bother to outsource to. they are undoubtedly the absolute best oem microphone manufacturer in china. it's not even close.

Most of their earliest engineers came from Shanghai Feilo, so their technical capabilities are also good.

 

[soliloqueen]

the history of the chinese microphone market is interesting. i've also heard rumor that in the 1950s, as part of enterprise-building exercises in the eastern bloc, the soviet union flew gefell to china to teach chinese engineers how to make condenser microphones (or perhaps vice versa), which lead to the founding of 797 audio in 1953. this is only a rumor, but this sort of talent sharing between the USSR and China was
1. extremely common practice at the time, as the soviet union was moving massive amounts of especially military technology production to china.
and
2. lines up moderately well with what we know about all the timelines involved.

so the likelihood that this happened is quite high, though i cannot confirm it. this seems to have been initially claimed by david josephson on HR 25 years ago in response to a vague statement by 797 about being founded by a german company.

the original 797 website from 2000 states that 797 was taught by germans in 1956, but the company was established in 1953, so it could be theorized that they were founded in 1953, failed, and then gefell was brought in to help in 1956.

 

[ZHOUJUN]

the history of the chinese microphone market is interesting. i've also heard rumor that in the 1950s, as part of enterprise-building exercises in the eastern bloc, the soviet union flew gefell to china to teach chinese engineers how to make condenser microphones (or perhaps vice versa), which lead to the founding of 797 audio in 1953. this is only a rumor, but this sort of talent sharing between mao and stalin was
1. extremely common practice at the time, as the soviet union was moving massive amounts of especially military technology production to china.
and
2. lines up moderately well with what we know about all the timelines involved.

so the likelihood that this happened is quite high, though i cannot confirm it. this seems to have been initially claimed by david josephson on HR 25 years ago.

History is very interesting. This is not a rumor, but a fact. China's 797 microphone technology originated from Neumann in East Germany. This factory, code-named 718, was established in 1952. It was a collection factory of many of Germany's most advanced electronic products at that time. 797 was an electroacoustic branch of 718. China sent many people to East Germany at that time to learn electroacoustic manufacturing technology, learning the manufacturing process of dynamic microphones and speakers. Many experts from East Germany also came to China to help China produce these electronic components. The later professional recording microphone was reverse-engineered by 797 in the early 1970s by imitating Neumann U87, model CR1-3. 797's earliest condenser microphone was the small diaphragm CR1-1, which imitated Neumann KM53. CR1-3 was the prototype of the first generation of RODE NT2 products, including Germany's BPM's CR1-73, which were all developed on the basis of CR1-3 and manufactured by Beijing 797 OEM.

 

[soliloqueen]

China's 797 microphone technology originated from Neumann in East Germany, code-named 718 Factory, which was established in 1952. 797 was an electroacoustic branch of 718. At that time, China sent many people to East Germany to learn electroacoustic manufacturing technology, learning the manufacturing process of dynamic microphones and speakers. The later professional recording microphone was reverse-developed by 797 in the early 1970s based on Neumann U87, model CR1-3. 797's earliest condenser microphone was the small-diaphragm CR1-1, and CR1-3 was the prototype of the first generation of RODE NT2 products, including Germany's BPM's CR1-73, which were all developed based on CR1-3 and manufactured by Beijing 797 OEM.

yes, i believe 718 factory was the name of the joint german/chinese factory. it specialized in more than just microphones, and was sort of a general factory for outsourcing of electronics for of german design. apparently the factory was split into many sub factories, with 797 being in charge of audio. the adjacent 798 is now an art district:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/798_Art_Zone

though i was more familiar with 798 for being a historic and highly contentious center of gay activism in china, but that's beyond the discussion scope of an audio forum. now i understand, our histories align.

 

[FetMe?FetU!]

lewitt is a takstar-produced brand, takstar being a prc nationalized production factory of superlux taiwan, so it's probably not hard to get real lewitt parts in china as factory seconds. that's why there'd be no way to tell.

takstar does really incredible work, and i know many of the engineers there as peers. there's a reason why it's the only company european mic companies bother to outsource to. they are undoubtedly the absolute best oem microphone manufacturer in china. it's not even close.

That's good to know about TakStar. Other than apparently OEMing for LeWitt, I have considered buying one of their SM10 condenser microphones in the past but did not. I believe it was also you who informed me that the capsules in my AKG Perception 2XX and 4XX series were made by TakStar (thank you again for the excellent information). I have been looking at BaiFeiLi microphones made by Enping Shiyinzhe Electronic Technology Co., Ltd., founded only in 2017. I've got a V5, but I have not yet put it through its paces, but I will soon.

 

[FetMe?FetU!]

Lewitt Mics are produced by Takstar in China. There are many counterfeit Lewitt products in China. Takstar said that Lewitt established the brand in cooperation with AKG. Takstar is not actually a branch in Taiwan. It has only been OEM for many Taiwanese brands, including some Japanese brands. The founder of Takstar is from Shanghai Feilo, China, and it is a brand from mainland China.

I'm curious if you know or even have an opinion on whether the counterfeit Lewitt microphones in China are built from TakStar parts or if they come from TakStar or their parent company's owned factory(s). Although the sources escape me, I have read that many counterfeits (Shure, AKG, Neumann, etc.) come from dedicated factories that only make counterfeits. Strangely, I've seen the term "Pop-Up" associated with these counterfeiters. It's interesting because Pop-Up refers to temporary retail or event locations in my old industry. I'm guessing the term means something different about counterfeiting.

 

[rock soderstrom]

History is very interesting. This is not a rumor, but a fact. China's 797 microphone technology originated from Neumann in East Germany. This factory, code-named 718, was established in 1952. It was a collection factory of many of Germany's most advanced electronic products at that time. 797 was an electroacoustic branch of 718. China sent many people to East Germany at that time to learn electroacoustic manufacturing technology, learning the manufacturing process of dynamic microphones and speakers. Many experts from East Germany also came to China to help China produce these electronic components.

That is a historical fact. Such a transfer of technology and know-how did not only take place in audio technic but also in camera and lens manufacturing, for example!

 

[FetMe?FetU!]

That is a historical fact. Such a transfer of technology and know-how did not only take place in audio technic but also in camera and lens manufacturing, for example!

I can speak a little to that as a lot of know-how was purposely and unintentionally transferred from Sony when we began our manufacturing relationship with our Chinese factories. From my product days, I remember having dinner and being told SO MANY stories from many of the people responsible for bringing them online and, more difficult, up to our minimal standards. There were a lot of good stories but so many "not so good" stories. Similar experiences when manufacturing elsewhere in the world, too, not just China. But IP was a particular challenge with China, and still is.

 

[rock soderstrom]

But back then it was different, as soliloqueen mentioned above, it was politically controlled and intentional. It was a kind of international development aid among communist brother countries, which led to this transfer of know-how in many technical (industrial) and scientific fields.

 

[soliloqueen]

I'm curious if you know or even have an opinion on whether the counterfeit Lewitt microphones in China are built from TakStar parts or if they come from TakStar or their parent company's owned factory(s). Although the sources escape me, I have read that many counterfeits (Shure, AKG, Neumann, etc.) come from dedicated factories that only make counterfeits. Strangely, I've seen the term "Pop-Up" associated with these counterfeiters. It's interesting because Pop-Up refers to temporary retail or event locations in my old industry. I'm guessing the term means something different about counterfeiting.

it's really the same sort of operation as fake watches. there is a mastermind behind the designs. the mastermind employs tons of people to place orders for all the parts, which are then assembled at a random factory in a related business after a short training period, under a trade name. if the pop up factory gets shut down, the mastermind repeats the same process with a different random factory after another short training period. i have a casual acquaintance in china who ran the factory that used to make the fake u87s. the mastermind cycled through to other factories in the area when it got too hot, so he doesn't anymore. Because of how the system works, you can't really accomplish anything by shutting down one of the pop-up factories because they're not actually responsible for the counterfeiting, they're just labor. A lot of the time the Chinese government just gives up. Sometimes for big companies like Rolex when the FBI or Interpol gets involved they will humor them and shut down the pop-up factories, but this does nothing and the operation is usually back up in less than 6 months.

 

[FetMe?FetU!]

But back then it was different, as soliloqueen mentioned above, it was politically controlled and intentional. It was a kind of international development aid among communist brother countries, which led to this transfer of know-how in many technical (industrial) and scientific fields.

Excellent point.

 

[ZHOUJUN]

I'm curious if you know or even have an opinion on whether the counterfeit Lewitt microphones in China are built from TakStar parts or if they come from TakStar or their parent company's owned factory(s). Although the sources escape me, I have read that many counterfeits (Shure, AKG, Neumann, etc.) come from dedicated factories that only make counterfeits. Strangely, I've seen the term "Pop-Up" associated with these counterfeiters. It's interesting because Pop-Up refers to temporary retail or event locations in my old industry. I'm guessing the term means something different about counterfeiting.

Lewitt's counterfeit products do not come from Takstar, but from some other microphone factories, most of which are from Guangdong,

However, for a microphone like Neumann U87AI, it is not difficult to counterfeit the circuit, but the difficulty lies in the manufacturing of the shell. The cost of the model is also very high. Counterfeit products that look the same as Neumann U87AI have only appeared in China in recent years. The main reason is the expensive model cost, which requires a large sales volume to support. In fact, anywhere in the world, as long as a product is popular, there will be counterfeiters. It’s just that China is somewhat lacking in cracking down on counterfeiting. With higher profits, there will always be people who take risks.

China. There are also many counterfeits of Neumann U87AI in China, and the prices are very cheap. Limited by the cost, most of them use iron shells. I have tested several of them, and there is nothing to recommend them in terms of sound, especially the performance of the capsule, the sound is very piercing. Their costs are almost all spent on the mold fee of the shell, so the overall quality is not very good, even worse than the early RODE NT2. Because most of the world's microphones are produced in China, counterfeits are very common, and there are always people who do not follow the rules.