JohnRoberts

Re: Against Ideology
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2018, 10:44:47 AM »
Well, ok.  The words "settled science" don't even appear in that article, and "overwhelming consensus" doesn't even remotely approach the same definition. 

But this must be another "we're watching two different movies" thing.
Only "two" movies...  seems like more than that.  ::)

JR
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...


sodderboy

Re: Against Ideology
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2018, 09:32:36 AM »
Well, ok.  The words "settled science" don't even appear in that article, and "overwhelming consensus" doesn't even remotely approach the same definition. 

But this must be another "we're watching two different movies" thing.

If the author is not skeptical of "climate change" because of "overwhelming consensus" (very scientific method there),

and champions some unknown "conservative never-trumper (?!?) when there are plenty of non-NOAA, non-East Anglia, non-UN, non-Harvard etc. scientists skeptical of "climate change",

then it is obviously "settled science' for him, the one who preaches others to be skeptical of everything.

That IS ideology, but he cannot see it due to personal filters that he supposedly eschews.  More hypocritical than ironic?  I gotta floss the popcorn out of my teeth. 

Mike


JohnRoberts

Re: Against Ideology
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2018, 12:48:31 PM »
If the author is not skeptical of "climate change" because of "overwhelming consensus" (very scientific method there),

and champions some unknown "conservative never-trumper (?!?) when there are plenty of non-NOAA, non-East Anglia, non-UN, non-Harvard etc. scientists skeptical of "climate change",

then it is obviously "settled science' for him, the one who preaches others to be skeptical of everything.

That IS ideology, but he cannot see it due to personal filters that he supposedly eschews.  More hypocritical than ironic?  I gotta floss the popcorn out of my teeth. 

Mike
We all have biases and some can be difficult to perceive. The echo chamber of modern social media can narrow our perspectives if we allow it too.

JR

PS: I finished reading the fighter pilot book and am back on Pinker... (Blank Slate). Smart dude but reading him is like doing homework compared to jocks in high performance aircraft.
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

Re: Against Ideology
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2019, 11:32:10 AM »
The internet reminds me sometimes of that sign on the road as you leave Israel for the West bank or Gazza , big red lettering , 'Your liable to be tortured raped and murdered by terrorists if you cross this line' , in slightly less graphic terms of course ,but thats the implication anyway .

Theres an interesting parrallel in the animal kingdom , the robin red breast here in Ireland is the tamest of all birds,its very bad luck to ever harm them  , it'll land within 12 inches of you in the garden ,and happily feed on anything you happen to unearth . In contrast in other parts of mainland europe ,the robin does exist in the wild ,but generations of war and hard times forced the  people to hunt small birds  with the result that now the species has an built in distrust of humans , you may hear it tweet in the hedge, or glimpse it flash by on the wing  but it wont fly around your feet and look you in the eye . I wonder if an egg from one of the continental birds was transplanted to an Irish nest , would the feldgelings fear remain or is its distrust of humans solely due to programming?

How much of our personal  fear is down to 'bogie man' conspiriacy  fed to us from day one  , and how have our own personal experiences shaped this fear of the unknown.

Happy new year all  :)

JohnRoberts

Re: Against Ideology
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2019, 12:19:37 PM »

How much of our personal  fear is down to 'bogie man' conspiriacy  fed to us from day one  , and how have our own personal experiences shaped this fear of the unknown.

Happy new year all  :)
Since I am back reading my Pinker (homework), I can share a recent pearl.

Most of our evolution occurred during our hunter-gatherer stage. Therefore our hard wired instincts (like being fearful of strangers) is easily explained by the genetic success from our ancestors shunning or even killing outsiders back then.

We have not evolved that far, and modern culture socialization is often in opposition to our hard wiring. As modern culture changes even faster, there will be some new stresses to our societal calm.  (The observation about "when" the bulk of our evolution occurred is Pinker, I extrapolated from that. )

JR

 
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

scott2000

Re: Against Ideology
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2019, 02:10:52 PM »

Theres an interesting parrallel in the animal kingdom , the robin red breast here in Ireland is the tamest of all birds,its very bad luck to ever harm them  , it'll land within 12 inches of you in the garden ,and happily feed on anything you happen to unearth .


Sounds nice...... My brother and sister and I used to get a kick out of feeding squirrels and have them crawl on us to get the bread......One time we had one inside the house..lol...Not a good idea but it left...we have too many squirrels here now....They eat most of the bird food until the Raccoons come at night and get the rest.....

Yeah I feed a bunch of birds and you can tell the same come around and I believe they live in the section of woods/conservation behind me..Cardinals, some weird black birds, some FL doves...etc...  I read somewhere that Bluejays like peanuts and can pick up on them from very far away.. I put some out and sure enough, within a week I had two and now there are several babies. My Grandmother used to have them all over her yard and I missed seeing them. Pretty nice birds. My mother actually has some sand cranes that come around that will eat out of your hand and let you touch them. I fed a couple where I live and they would be here every day until I decided it wasn't safe enough on my street for them to be crossing all of the time.... People drive too fast around the chicanes here.....


How much of our personal  fear is down to 'bogie man' conspiriacy  fed to us from day one  , and how have our own personal experiences shaped this fear of the unknown.


I used to have to tell my wife to be careful walking around nude at night in front of all of the back windows....we have no curtains..... She didn't want any because we are backed on a conservation and there are no houses behind. But there are plenty around and people cut through the yards sometimes..... I think I mentioned somewhere here that I swear I've seen drones in my backyard....... One of the next door neighbor's kids and friends gave me a startle when I went out back to feed my fish late at night and they were right by my back bedroom windows....."looking for their dog"...good thing when I called the father, the dog wasn't lost and fine inside.. ::)... Of course this wasn't enough for my wife so, not too long ago , I caught another one of the neighbor's kids friends because he forgot to turn off his phone when he was coming by my window around midnight and I saw the light...... And now my wife does and wants curtains.......

It's unfortunate some have to live in a place where I hear the only reason you want to leave your car unlocked is to keep the glass in tact when the break in happens....... I live in a kinda nice area and, although my trucks have been broken into twice, it might have actually been because the doors were unlocked.... not intentionally though...lol...

I think personal experiences play a big role in how people tend to look at the unknown.  It's obvious when I try to teach my son some things based on my experience that this works the other way too....lol ......

I recently had a conversation with him voicing that I really don't get any kicks out of him telling me I was right and that him being safe and staying out of easily avoidable trouble is much more of a reward for me..... and it's cheaper...... :-[

I was looking around on Ebay the other day and came across some photos of Dachau..... I've seen some pretty messed up stuff in my life , one of the most horrible tragedies  was a fatal heroin overdose of some girl at a party..... I was with my buddies next door and one of his friends was an EMT and the people having the party knew this.... Walking through the house, you'd think everything was normal with people just hanging out ......until we got into the back bedroom where all the commotion was........ An entire house full of people without a clue what was going on....... Wild.....but nothing like those pics of that train.....unreal....


« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 02:21:07 PM by scott2000 »

JohnRoberts

Re: Against Ideology
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2019, 03:35:02 PM »
Sounds nice...... My brother and sister and I used to get a kick out of feeding squirrels and have them crawl on us to get the bread......One time we had one inside the house..lol...Not a good idea but it left...we have too many squirrels here now....They eat most of the bird food until the Raccoons come at night and get the rest.....
I killed 5 squirrels this year poaching pecans from my trees.  8)
Quote


I used to have to tell my wife to be careful walking around nude at night in front of all of the back windows....we have no curtains..... She didn't want any because we are backed on a conservation and there are no houses behind. But there are plenty around and people cut through the yards sometimes..... I think I mentioned somewhere here that I swear I've seen drones in my backyard....... One of the next door neighbor's kids and friends gave me a startle when I went out back to feed my fish late at night and they were right by my back bedroom windows....."looking for their dog"...good thing when I called the father, the dog wasn't lost and fine inside.. ::)... Of course this wasn't enough for my wife so, not too long ago , I caught another one of the neighbor's kids friends because he forgot to turn off his phone when he was coming by my window around midnight and I saw the light...... And now my wife does and wants curtains.......
yes... horny kids are even dumber than regular kids.  Resist the temptation to booby trap the yard, because they could sue you if seriously injured (and why booby trap if not serious?)... Motion sensing outdoor lights should be adequate to keep them at bay.
Quote
It's unfortunate some have to live in a place where I hear the only reason you want to leave your car unlocked is to keep the glass in tact when the break in happens....... I live in a kinda nice area and, although my trucks have been broken into twice, it might have actually been because the doors were unlocked.... not intentionally though...lol...
I had a pair of cheap sunglasses stolen from my unlocked car, in my carport in the daytime while I was home...  I think I knew who did it, and pointed out to him that I own a firearm so thieves need to be careful messing around my property.
Quote
I think personal experiences play a big role in how people tend to look at the unknown.  It's obvious when I try to teach my son some things based on my experience that this works the other way too....lol ......

We are wired to be suspicious and apprehensive about the unknown, and that historically has served our distant ancestors well.

School integration (forced busing) was all about exposing young brains to different cultures on a routine basis so they can replace fear of the unknown with some actual "knowns".  We don't have an easy remedy for fixing racist parents so this will take multiple generations to fully correct.

Coincidentally today I was talking with a neighbor (one of the smarter rednecks in my neighborhood) and he complained about how MS gets criticized for historical racism and past bad behaviors. He shared that racial problems didn't really exist in the small town rural deep south where he grew up because white and black kids grew up playing together.  (of course nobody thinks they are prejudiced , including me.  :o )

I pointed out that anti-semitism is still alive and well in Europe so we need to keep the memory of Nazi Germany alive so we don't relive those old mistakes. While not quite on the same scale of evil, MS has some history that should not be buried in an earthen dam like those civil rights workers back in the 60s.  ::)  I don't think he enjoyed that concept, but is smart enough to get my point and not try to argue.

JR 
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...


 

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