Sunset sound

[pucho812]

Ok we all know and have seen that there is a huge homeless population problem currently going on.
We all can agree something must be done.
Where we argue is how to do it and what to do.
But I am certain we all can agree this is not good.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/t...CplQt-k17DKodH71ezZYgwklfo24dA0jZpY3Z9jQhiODI

 

[JohnRoberts]

no bueno... (mierda).

JR

 

[Brian Roth]

Yes, I saw that recent news article. Ironic, since I have recently been catching up on the Sunset Sound "roundtables" on YouTube.

Bri

 

[pucho812]

Yes, I saw that recent news article. Ironic, since I have recently been catching up on the Sunset Sound "roundtables" on YouTube.

Bri

The roundtables are great. Sadly this is not the only studio in l.a. facing such issues.
Another one farther down the road moved gobos out of one of their rooms for an event. They moved them into the studios parking lot. After the event they went to get the gobos and they had already been taken. Luckily they only went to the encampment across the street and the team recovered them without real issue.

 

[cyrano]

Not good. But the main question is "Why are there so many homeless in the USA?"

I suppose the vast majority of the homeless are US citizens. Drugs? Psychological problems?

I think the main reason is the discrepancy between low wages and high rental prices. A lot of people seem to need multiple jobs to make ends meet. That makes it very easy to become homeless. And once you are homeless, it's much harder to find a job...

 

[JohnRoberts]

Not good. But the main question is "Why are there so many homeless in the USA?"

I suppose the vast majority of the homeless are US citizens. Drugs? Psychological problems?

Mental health resources are one obvious limitation. The proliferation of cheap drugs (fentanyl pouring through the open border) contributes to poor behavior. Oregon decriminalized all drugs, which seemed like a good idea at the time, but contributes to bad outcomes. They are rethinking that decision.

I think the main reason is the discrepancy between low wages and high rental prices. A lot of people seem to need multiple jobs to make ends meet. That makes it very easy to become homeless. And once you are homeless, it's much harder to find a job...

avoid simple answers for complex problems.

JR

 

[ruffrecords]

Maybe "some of the biggest names in music" could put their hands in their pockets and withdraw some salvation for these poor wretches.

Cheers

Ian

 

[cyrano]

Mental health resources are one obvious limitation. The proliferation of cheap drugs (fentanyl pouring through the open border) contributes to poor behavior. Oregon decriminalized all drugs, which seemed like a good idea at the time, but contributes to bad outcomes. They are rethinking that decision.

avoid simple answers for complex problems.

That simple answer came from a study by a non-partisan thinktank that was started in 1948 by the conservative Pew family:

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/resear...ow-housing-costs-drive-levels-of-homelessness

So maybe you should stop dreaming about a wall?

 

[iomegaman]

My son lives in San Jose, he works on the Stanford campus in SF...20 minute drive each day...he has continually moved up in his company until he is now the operations manager and runs several labs for upstream and downstream cultures/bio stuff...

Last year at the family gathering he had a few beers and went on a rant...really merciless rant about the homeless issue in his region...he's raising 3 kids, rent is astronomical...and he cannot go to a store without having to step over a passed out homeless person blocking the sidewalk...he no longer takes his kids with him and does all the shopping for the family because they are so aggressive.

Here's his rant...three blocks from the nice suburban neighborhood he lives in was a bowling alley the city bought and built a 3 story homeless shelter in its place...

They provide free room and board, showers, a clean and safe place to sleep/stay and all the mental health help you could ask for free...obviously they have a few simple rules...you cannot do drugs in the facilities...

The building is mostly empty...and the homeless encampments are taking over all over town...they cannot get anyone to stay in the building or join a program to get clean and get a job...

It is a serious mental health crisis...his drunken rant was gather them up and either execute them or force them into rehab...of course he was drunk...and he never had a lot of mercy being the only male with 4 sisters...

When I've talked to him since then he obviously does not believe that is a solution but is completely frustrated because of housing costs and foreigners buying up all the property in the region and driving up rental costs...he makes really good money for the bay area...but it is the most expensive real estate in the world and the homeless population is completely out of control there.

San Francisco tried to implement new housing codes that require more affordable houses be built because the situation is completely untenable...but like all things in capitalism, there are ways to get around the building requirements and the housing PRICE CRISIS shows no sign of relenting.

For most of my life I've been a small government conservative with a healthy dash of empathy and liberal policy pushback against corporate greed and exploitation...but its hard to find my place on the spectrum anymore.

I hate what lobby money has done to our country...I hate when corporations pick profit over peoples health...the American dream our parents grew up with is mostly dead...my kids cannot afford to buy houses like was once possible 60 years ago.

I don't have a solution...other than razor wire...but that starts to get a little to Apocalyptic for my taste...

Here in Tucson you cannot leave a bike locked up outside...unless you spend $100 on a heavy duty bike lock and have 1/2" steel plate to lock it up to...bicycle theft is as common as lizards here...mostly the homeless population...

I wonder what would happen if we basically dropped all class 4 felony rules against most of these drugs?

Once an individual gets into that cycle of fines and penalties there is generally no way to get out...they end up homeless and look to crime to support the addictions...

I don't know, other countries have handled it much better than we are here in the USA...

 

[JohnRoberts]

I wonder what would happen if we basically dropped all class 4 felony rules against most of these drugs?

Once an individual gets into that cycle of fines and penalties there is generally no way to get out...they end up homeless and look to crime to support the addictions...

I don't know, other countries have handled it much better than we are here in the USA...

Oregon serves as an example of what happens when you decriminalize all drugs. Back in 2020 they decriminalized even hard drugs (Measure 110). The outcome was not as positive as hoped for.

Lawmakers are now considering a number of bills that would reinstate criminal penalties such as fines and jail time for drug possession – a decision that could come any day. A coalition led by prominent business owners have threatened to mobilize an effort to hobble the law even more by putting it back to the public in a ballot measure in the fall. Recent polling has shown more than half of voters support a total repeal.

So much for easy answers, I don't claim to have them. But what leaders in many states are doing now isn't working.

There are numerous factors involved.

JR

 

[pucho812]

My son lives in San Jose, he works on the Stanford campus in SF...20 minute drive each day...he has continually moved up in his company until he is now the operations manager and runs several labs for upstream and downstream cultures/bio stuff...

Last year at the family gathering he had a few beers and went on a rant...really merciless rant about the homeless issue in his region...he's raising 3 kids, rent is astronomical...and he cannot go to a store without having to step over a passed out homeless person blocking the sidewalk...he no longer takes his kids with him and does all the shopping for the family because they are so aggressive.

Here's his rant...three blocks from the nice suburban neighborhood he lives in was a bowling alley the city bought and built a 3 story homeless shelter in its place...

They provide free room and board, showers, a clean and safe place to sleep/stay and all the mental health help you could ask for free...obviously they have a few simple rules...you cannot do drugs in the facilities...

The building is mostly empty...and the homeless encampments are taking over all over town...they cannot get anyone to stay in the building or join a program to get clean and get a job...

It is a serious mental health crisis...his drunken rant was gather them up and either execute them or force them into rehab...of course he was drunk...and he never had a lot of mercy being the only male with 4 sisters...

When I've talked to him since then he obviously does not believe that is a solution but is completely frustrated because of housing costs and foreigners buying up all the property in the region and driving up rental costs...he makes really good money for the bay area...but it is the most expensive real estate in the world and the homeless population is completely out of control there.

San Francisco tried to implement new housing codes that require more affordable houses be built because the situation is completely untenable...but like all things in capitalism, there are ways to get around the building requirements and the housing PRICE CRISIS shows no sign of relenting.

For most of my life I've been a small government conservative with a healthy dash of empathy and liberal policy pushback against corporate greed and exploitation...but its hard to find my place on the spectrum anymore.

I hate what lobby money has done to our country...I hate when corporations pick profit over peoples health...the American dream our parents grew up with is mostly dead...my kids cannot afford to buy houses like was once possible 60 years ago.

I don't have a solution...other than razor wire...but that starts to get a little to Apocalyptic for my taste...

Here in Tucson you cannot leave a bike locked up outside...unless you spend $100 on a heavy duty bike lock and have 1/2" steel plate to lock it up to...bicycle theft is as common as lizards here...mostly the homeless population...

I wonder what would happen if we basically dropped all class 4 felony rules against most of these drugs?

Once an individual gets into that cycle of fines and penalties there is generally no way to get out...they end up homeless and look to crime to support the addictions...

I don't know, other countries have handled it much better than we are here in the USA...

I too have said forced treatment but the truth with treatment is it will not work unless the person wants it to work.
I have known one too many folks who have a problem and have gone to rehab only to relapse.
It’s a big issue, there is no simple answer. What is interesting is cities will build places for the folks but the moment you put any rules in place like a curfew or whatever the places remain empty or near empty.
What’s worse is when l.a. builds a place for the homeless and it costs more per unit then an average house in l.a. While it is noble to take care of them, it’s a waste of funds as they don’t get used.

 

[living sounds]

Oregon serves as an example of what happens when you decriminalize all drugs. Back in 2020 they decriminalized even hard drugs (Measure 110). The outcome was not as positive as hoped for.

Lawmakers are now considering a number of bills that would reinstate criminal penalties such as fines and jail time for drug possession – a decision that could come any day. A coalition led by prominent business owners have threatened to mobilize an effort to hobble the law even more by putting it back to the public in a ballot measure in the fall. Recent polling has shown more than half of voters support a total repeal.

So much for easy answers, I don't claim to have them. But what leaders in many states are doing now isn't working.

There are numerous factors involved.

JR

Actually, there is a lot of debate regarding cause and effect. Things have become much worse in other states as well, states that didn't decriminalize drugs. Putting addicts in jail gets them off the streets, but it doesn't adress the problem of addiction.

The link between home prices and homelessness at least is obvious. Beyond that it is a complex problem related to societal changes, many of them cyclical.

Also, availibility of dangeorus black market dugs is on the rise globally. It's nowhere near as bad here in Germany as it is in certain parts of the US, but I'm still glad I left the city.

BTW, when I was in Chicago and DC last year I saw very few homeless people in the parts I went to. In fact, far fewer than you see in bigger German cities.

 

[pucho812]

Actually, there is a lot of debate regarding cause and effect. Things have become much worse in other states as well, states that didn't decriminalize drugs. Putting addicts in jail gets them off the streets, but it doesn't adress the problem of addiction.

The link between home prices and homelessness at least is obvious. Beyond that it is a complex problem related to societal changes, many of them cyclical.

Also, availibility of dangeorus black market dugs is on the rise globally. It's nowhere near as bad here in Germany as it is in certain parts of the US, but I'm still glad I left the city.

BTW, when I was in Chicago and DC last year I saw very few homeless people in the parts I went to. In fact, far fewer than you see in bigger German cities.

That's because they have all gone out west to California.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Actually, there is a lot of debate regarding cause and effect. Things have become much worse in other states as well, states that didn't decriminalize drugs.

I used to live in CA and now am in a state that has not decriminalized drugs. Near zero homelessness here. Plenty of illegal drugs and the crime (gang violence) that goes with it.

Putting addicts in jail gets them off the streets, but it doesn't adress the problem of addiction.

Neither does giving them a bunch of free support. If they don't want to quit (or at least have family that will intervene to help), they won't.

The link between home prices and homelessness at least is obvious.

Is it? I think a permissive culture/government and a mild climate have a huge effect. If you are a renter with not a lot of personal possessions it is cheap and easy to move here in the US. Think about it.

Beyond that it is a complex problem related to societal changes, many of them cyclical.

When was the last cycle of large scale drug addiction in developed countries?

Also, availibility of dangeorus black market dugs is on the rise globally. It's nowhere near as bad here in Germany as it is in certain parts of the US, but I'm still glad I left the city.

Actual secure borders would help. But that's racist or neo-colonialist or something.

BTW, when I was in Chicago and DC last year I saw very few homeless people in the parts I went to.

What parts did you visit and what time of year? Chicago is not a homeless friendly climate in winter. I'd bet the shelters tend to fill up when it's cold and windy.

In fact, far fewer than you see in bigger German cities.

According to this report there are only 4900 homless in DC.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...gest-homeless-populations-in-the-u-s?slide=12

And 6100 in Chicago.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...gest-homeless-populations-in-the-u-s?slide=14

As compared to 70k+ in Los Angeles (and well over 100k total in big cities in CA).

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...gest-homeless-populations-in-the-u-s?slide=25

 

[CJ]

people are not homeless because they do drugs,
people do drugs because they are homeless,

what are you going to do, hold up a street lamp 24/7 and be bored out of your mind?
try hanging out in the street for a few weeks, it gets old quick. especially in the winter time. homeless people don't sleep in shelters because they have a problem with the rules, like no drugs. and it is not easy to sleep with a bunch of nut jobs around you talking all night on a lice infested mattress,

we shipped all the blue collar jobs to china and raised rents at the same time,

so more and more people are falling through the cracks,

once your down, that's where you stay, especially in this tech oriented, white collar world.
you have to go $30,000 dollars in debt to citibank to get a degree these days, i went to UC davis for $212.50 a quarter back in the seventies. maybe if getting a college education was affordable we would have less of a problem.

also, people are more selfish nowadays, parents would rather kick their problem child to the streets rather than tolerate their behavior. somewhere out there are the parents of all these homeless people, but maybe the parents are bad actors also so the kids wanna leave. so, be a good parent. that would get some people off the street.


people who earn a pay check helping the homeless don't want to help the homeless, because if they did, they wouldn't have a pay check. more homeless = more government money =more job security,

i see no solution, population goes up, rent goes up do to constricted real estate,

the problem is starting to haunt the affluent, homeless people in their neighborhoods, doing what they do, the problem is getting harder and harder to hide.

if i work late, i trip over bodies as i leave the shop, they sleep on main street in the business alcoves. curt cobain used to sleep in front of our shop. this hurts small business because nobody wants to go downtown.

business owners complain to the police but the police chief's attitude is "their human beings too, you know, " they don't have this problem in mt view, ca, all that money means extra security, a homeless person hanging out on the street is gone in ten minutes after some soulless techie gets on their cell phone while driving to google in their bmw,

me, i have no problem, every time i need some extra cash to make ends meet i just boost a generator from home repo

 

[Matador]

Recently there was an article in the local paper about an extensive interview effort done between San Francisco and a few other big cities like Los Angeles, with the help of local MFT group that specializes in helping the homeless. Interestingly, only a small fraction (less than 5% that I can recall) met the definition for qualifying for mental health services, and less than 15% were dealing with active drug addiction (e.g. not significantly more prevalent than a normal controlled group of the "housed" population).

However a large number (>60%) were "recently" homeless, and nearly all lost housing due to rental increases or in financial hardships that caused them to sell their homes. Many others were hit with large health issues that bankrupted them or rendered them unable to maintain employment. Many described looking for work, but it being nearly impossible without housing (chicken and egg). A shocking number were also veterans.

In other words, it's not 100% crazy drug users robbing everything that isn't nailed down.

 

[fazer]

It seem that with AI you’ll see white collar jobs that can be programmed disappear also. It depends on how much hype/spin is being used to sell the AI driven world and how real the problem solving actually is. Cutting expenses is the name of the game when the innovation is done.

My parents went through the Great Depression as teenagers. My dad would see the crazy things that would happen and say what the country needs is to experience a Great Depression to appreciate what we have but also to correct the upside down nature of real estate prices we see today.

The one thing about the US is it always figures a way to take a bad situation and turn it into a profit for good or bad. It makes an atheist start talking about god when they windup on the street. That is blaming a god they don’t believe in for their new predicament.

 

[CJ]

Remember that not all homeless are on the street, some live in cars or TV's, (funny spell check, have you seen the guy with the microwave on his head?)

Some are couch surfing, heck, you could say that in some respects that people living in apartments are homeless, for sure houseless, which is what Carlin called the homeless,

 

[Brian Roth]

I seldom get into political discussions here because I will ignite a firestorm with my comments.

Two close friends had felony convictions and went to prison. One was several busts for pot possession and went to prison. The other was sent to prison for a fight with his wife. Complicated stories!

Both friends can NOT find a decent job. Filling out applications, they are automatically excluded fror BS they did decades ago ......because they are felons. BZZZT. Now homeless (with very intelligent brains) who fucked up in their past.

Bri

 

[CJ]

Same with the armed forces.
Use to be that a felon would be fast tracked into the green beret program or navy seals. Not any more.

Sometimes you have to hire yourself, ie start a small bizness.