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Basically don't be an employee who receives w2 wages. Things like stock based income can receive favorable capital gain treatment. You can setup as an S Corp, do the same work, but are then considered a business and get all kinds of write-offs and deductions available. Retirement account limits go up.

All this isn't strictly a 1%, 0.1% thing. It's just that the higher you go the more options that are generally available. I am just scratching the surface here.

That's not even the core of the matter. If you're really wealthy, you'll borrow money. That's deductible and easily used to create more money. Another trick is you give a loan to a foreign subsidiary. Again deductible. That loan never gets paid back. The tax services can't easily check that, since payback is years into the future. And usually the foreign subsidiary will go broke, so the money's basically gone. Only, the subsidiary already lent the money to another subsidiary. That's why it went broke. Etc.

The law has been changed here very recently. Up until now, there were thousands of companies that had their head office in Brussels. All it required was half a person as personnel and an address. You could find very small offices in Brussels very cheaply. These head offices never paid much taxes, since their operational subsidiaries were outside of the EU. You can hire a specialised lawyer to do all of that. Less than 10.000€ startup fee and less than 4.000€ running costs per year.
 
Another aspect would be the more money you have, the less you need money, so the easier to hoard wealth and assets and not pay taxes. Put 1 million in the S&P 30 years ago, it's about 10 million today. Give it to your heir and the 9 million gain is tax free due to stepped up cost basis. The heir would also then collect qualified dividend income, about $150k a year, at lower tax rates than someone having a job. In a few decades this could then be passed on again.

So millions are made, all at an overall tax rate of a few % and dropping. (Notice the shift to share buybacks). Meanwhile how much has the guy doing roofing in July been paying? An order of magnitude higher for hard labor. It's beyond ridiculous when you delve into the details.

These are just non-esoteric things a layman can do. Haven't even touched on more complex things or the detrimental effects of something like fiat money.
I'm aware of all of those things and have participated in several. Not seeing the big problem, honestly. Cap gains at 15-20% (plus more in some states that also collect at that level) is non-trivial. Those only earn when invested in businesses that succeed and employ others.

I was an independent contractor for a couple of years (before CA ruined that with AB-5). Never set up an S-corp, but I can tell you that it's no cakewalk being independent or running a small business. I had to pay the entire 15% S.S./Medicare rather than the usual 50-50 split with employer. While my SEP-IRA contribution limit was about 3x the 401(k) limit, I did not receive employee matching nor any bonus/RSU. To earn as much as I did as employee with those benefits I had to charge a large hourly rate (yes, I understand the fully burdened cost of a full time employee) and that all showed up as 1099 income. My taxes were not lower.

Oh, and don't forget medical insurance. At the time I was thin on cash, had a mortgage, prop tax, etc. Thanks to the ACA, insurance rates, which were already high, increased further. I decided that my healthy lifestyle made it worth the risk to go uninsured and pay the uninsured penalty for two years rather than $1200/mo in insurance I rarely used. I paid out-of-pocket for health care and usually could negotiate a lower fee because no paperwork was needed.

Stock is not tax free. Restricted Share Units, the common way to provide incentive pay these days, is taxed as income when the shares vest. When sold, capital gains (or losses) are calculated if they were held for a year post-vest, or as income otherwise (short term gain).

People accumulating wealth is not a terrible thing. The extra homes they have employ people in construction, design, and maintenance. Their "luxury goods" do the same. They pay property tax and fuel tax. If there's a legal dodge, who wouldn't take it? Simplify the tax code to reduce gaming.

I also know people in the 0.5-0.1% including one of my best friends. I've known him for 25 years. He's a few years younger than I am. He didn't finish his BS in CompSci, but is one of the sharpest SW guys I know. He's worked at a series of startups, only one of which was semi-successful. He didn't get rich there. He saved and bought his first home and a couple of rental properties during those years.

He ended up at a big tech company as a low level manager about 14 years ago. That's where he made it. He still works long hours. Has bought more rental properties (outside of CA). Likely retiring soon in his mid-50s like I did. We worked for it. We made mistakes, learned from them, and moved on. We paid our taxes and made our charitable donations, lived within the law, lived within our means. But now we're wealth-hoarding rich bastards who should pay more. Pffft.
 
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People accumulating wealth is not a terrible thing. The extra homes they have employ people in construction, design, and maintenance.

It depends how the wealth is accumulated. Look at what happened just recently with pandemic money. Some wealthy people were gifted money to buy 2nd, 3rd, or more properties. Giving wealthy people money is a good thing because they can then employ people to take care of it? If someone gives me a house I will gladly hire a maintenence crew.

All this ftee money to the wealthy then also priced honest working people out of the market, setting them back years from purchasing a home. In the worst cases people were priced out of housing entirely, homelessness exploded, as well as its associated problems as evidenced by this thread.

Capitalism is a good thing, it's the best way to grow the economic pie. But we have a system of grift. There has been a systematic gradual theft of wealth from honest working people going on for decades. The pandemic turned it into a step function.
 
It depends how the wealth is accumulated. Look at what happened just recently with pandemic money.
I opposed the stimulus money. It was obviously a stupid idea and now you can see why. Overly complex "solutions" 1) fail in unexpected ways and 2) are ripe for gaming. You claim to want less government, well add this bad outcome to your list of justifications.

Some wealthy people were gifted money to buy 2nd, 3rd, or more properties. Giving wealthy people money is a good thing because they can then employ people to take care of it?
I'm not supporting government giveaways (aka wealth redistribution) of any kind.

If someone gives me a house I will gladly hire a maintenence crew.
See above.

All this ftee money to the wealthy then also priced honest working people out of the market, setting them back years from purchasing a home.
As did shutting down businesses that then had to let employees go. Big stupid government is the main problem.

In the worst cases people were priced out of housing entirely, homelessness exploded, as well as its associated problems as evidenced by this thread.
Again, thank your governor and the others like him.

Capitalism is a good thing, it's the best way to grow the economic pie. But we have a system of grift.
We enable that grift with overly complex and large government. Government is rarely the best solution, and when it is, it must be constrained. We've failed to do that for some 80-90 years and here we are, reaping the "rewards."

There has been a systematic gradual theft of wealth from honest working people going on for decades. The pandemic turned it into a step function.
I don't disagree. I think two big problems need to be addressed. 1) Corporations should not have the same rights as people. They are not citizens. 2) Money is not speech. Implement stricter and simplified campaign finance regulation. I don't have a problem with high wealth, but we've allowed that wealth to easily buy power. That is and always has been something to avoid: concentration of power in too few people.
 
I'm not supporting government giveaways (aka wealth redistribution) of any kind.

Ok, so what do we do about what has already been given away? There is a portion of society that was gifted 3rd base to the detriment of everyone else. It doesn't make sense to simply say no more freebies, play ball. The logical thing is send them back to the batters box with everyone else, and then you can announce no more freebies, play ball.
 
Ok, so what do we do about what has already been given away? There is a portion of society that was gifted 3rd base to the detriment of everyone else. It doesn't make sense to simply say no more freebies, play ball. The logical thing is send them back to the batters box with everyone else, and then you can announce no more freebies, play ball.
Water under the bridge along with all the billions gone to welfare and similar programs. What is it with the continual attempts to rehash and "correct" everything that we now deem "bad" that happened in the past? You can't erase history or right past wrongs. Pragmatism is dead.
 
What is it with the continual attempts to rehash and "correct" everything that we now deem "bad" that happened in the past? You can't erase history or right past wrongs.

This is obviously flawed reasoning. So you are either:

A) just trolling, and thus unwilling to engage in rational discourse
Or
B) so entrenched with preconceived views you no longer have the necessary open mind and critical thinking skills, and thus unable to engage in rational discourse.

Either way further discussion is futile.
 
This is obviously flawed reasoning. So you are either:

A) just trolling, and thus unwilling to engage in rational discourse
Or
B) so entrenched with preconceived views you no longer have the necessary open mind and critical thinking skills, and thus unable to engage in rational discourse.

Either way further discussion is futile.
Unrealistic ideas like your proposal to somehow identify people who are now rich possibly because of some past advantage granted by government and then magically make them give it back (to whom, the government?) so we can level the playing field are what is flawed. My views have changed quite a lot since I was a twenty-something idealistic kid with minimal life experience. I've made my own mistakes, observed those made by others (including our government "leaders"), and learned from them. I'm open to pragmatic and realistic solutions.
 
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The Big Kahuna is taking care of these inequalities by burning down luxury homes in the hills.

Next up will be a massive earthquake which will level the entire bay area. After that, flooding in San diego, landslides in Santa barbara, hurricanes in miami, you beware!

Only honest farmers and people who live off the grid will be saved. (except Texans)

The meek shall inherit the earth, for it us written...
 
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Modern monetary theory suggests that government can just borrow/print all the money that they can imagine spending.

No. People often say that MMT advocates limitless issuing of money by government. But no real advocate of MMT states that.
Essentially (warning - major simplification incoming :)) MMT takes the position that all money is issued by governments through the relevant mechanisms (eg in UK Treasury/BoE).
And that taxation is primarily a method of controlling how much of that money circulates in the economy.
It does not imply that a limitless amount of money should be allowed to circulate. There are constraints of inflation and resources.
Whether someone accepts the basis of the theory is one thing.
If someone does accept the basis of the theory then how they react in terms of economic policy is a different question.
But policy informed by MMT does offer a path to better utilise the productive capacity of an economy. And in turn provide the possibility to increase that productive capacity.
 
I have been trying to pay attention for years as the Fed and central bankers were unable to hit 2% inflation targets. Now they are celebrating getting it back down to only 3%. :rolleyes:

$34.5T national debt is higher than our GDP and IMO excessive. I notice how much my weekly food purchase at the supermarket has increased.

The only possible hope I see for a return to normalcy is a massive productivity boost from business embracing generative AI, and the millions of illegal migrants paying more taxes into the system than the benefits they receive.

I don't feel lucky.

JR

PS: For a healthy economy we need migration, but we are a nation of laws and there are rules they should follow.
 
I have been trying to pay attention for years as the Fed and central bankers were unable to hit 2% inflation targets. Now they are celebrating getting it back down to only 3%. :rolleyes:
High inflation has been a worldwide problem the last few years - people blaming Biden for it are ignorant or politicizing. US inflation rate has been and currently is lower than many other countries.
I notice how much my weekly food purchase at the supermarket has increased.

I don't understand why anyone would think that prices would stay the same or go down even with low inflation. Prices went up faster during high inflation, and now they are going up slower, but still going up - the definition of inflation. Ground beef was 50 cents a pound and gasoline 30 cents a gallon when I started buying them in the 60's. Income hopefully goes up to keep pace - I was making $1/hr then as a dishwasher, and got a raise to $1.01 after a few months. I was sharing a 2 room apartment with bathroom down the hall for $25/month.

Inflation has outpaced income recently - hopefully it will stabilize soon, so that younger generations can have reasonable life expectations.
 
High inflation has been a worldwide problem the last few years - people blaming Biden for it are ignorant or politicizing. US inflation rate has been and currently is lower than many other countries.
that is the current political spin... at least you didn't try to blame ex-president Trump. ;)

I have been following this pretty closely since the derivatives debt market collapse and resulting collateral damage 2008-2009.

Both political parties are guilty of too much government spending, and most western central banks tend to work sympathetically. Spending and stimulus is generally fungible. Central bank spending outside the US is not driving our domestic inflation in my judgement.

I have watched President Biden brag about his party's massive spending bills. Now he is claiming that he needs yet another spending bill to close the border while he managed to open it all by himself by reversing some 50 odd executive orders that ex-President Trump wrote to manage the border.
I don't understand why anyone would think that prices would stay the same or go down even with low inflation. Prices went up faster during high inflation, and now they are going up slower, but still going up - the definition of inflation. Ground beef was 50 cents a pound and gasoline 30 cents a gallon when I started buying them in the 60's. Income hopefully goes up to keep pace - I was making $1/hr then as a dishwasher, and got a raise to $1.01 after a few months. I was sharing a 2 room apartment with bathroom down the hall for $25/month.
The mechanical mechanism for inflation is balance of money supply to available goods and services. Of course it is a little more complicated than that. I am repeating myself but we need higher productivity (more goods) to better match the elevated money supply.
Inflation has outpaced income recently
we agree
- hopefully it will stabilize soon, so that younger generations can have reasonable life expectations.
I am not sure how to fix the younger generations expectations. I guess it depends on what tic-tok tells them to think. 🤔

JR
 
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