Another CK12 Thread - what's available in 2023?

[Whoops]

I could have phrased that better. I respect Whoops and enjoy his posts. I just disagree with his take on the capsule pricing.

I totally respect your opinion and other fellow members that think the capsules are rightly priced. I have nothing against that opinion or anyone's choices, neither I will debate those, each to his own.
I just expressed my opinion and that's what I honestly feel.
I would definitely pay over $400 for a Tim Campbell CT12 capsule because as I said I trust his long (many years) dedication, study, knowledge and craftsmanship.
If there his anyone in the same level as Tim in the characteristics I describe I will gladly pay over $400,
but as Tim's capsule is not available for us I'm gladly waiting for a 3U Audio release.

Above all I clearly said and expressed my opinion and thoughts without hiding anything

 

[kingkorg]

I would like to see manufacturers up their game when it comes to transparency, and be open to our right to critique products if we find issues. The whole community is suffering from GS syndrome where everything handmade has to be praised and better than OEM.

There are cultural differences, this is a global forum. Rules and cultural norms that work in one country don't apply to whole planet.

I am of firm belief every product has to be challenged, and scrutinized. We don't get these parts free of charge. This inevitably leads to progress and growth.

If you, as a manufacturer, let your feelings get the best of you, especially if written words come from a potential troll, or a grumpy cat such as myself, you are in the wrong business.

 

[jeremynothman]

I totally respect your opinion and other fellow members that think the capsules are rightly priced. I have nothing against that opinion or anyone's choices, neither I will debate those, each to his own.
I just expressed my opinion and that's what I honestly feel.
I would definitely pay over $400 for a Tim Campbell CT12 capsule because as I said I trust his long (many years) dedication, study, knowledge and craftsmanship.
If there his anyone in the same level as Tim in the characteristics I describe I will gladly pay over $400,
but as Tim's capsule is not available for us I'm gladly waiting for a 3U Audio release.

Above all I clearly said and expressed my opinion and thoughts without hiding anything

Does Haun really have less experience? Haven’t they been making capsules for upwards of 30 years?

 

[Whoops]

Does Haun really have less experience? Haven’t they been making capsules for upwards of 30 years?

Are they available for us DIYers?
I tried to find a link on info about buying that capsule but couldn't find one,
if you have a link on info about how to buy it please be kind enough to share it with us, I would love to consider that option

I was talking about the current offers of CK12 capsules available for the DIY crowd (or general public).

If Haun capsule is available for us that's a great option,
thanks

 

[Recording Engineer]

Are they available for us DIYers?

If Haun capsule is available for us that's a great option,
thanks

In the form of their KA Series of capsules only (though I feel there may be “in” people that can get just the capsules directly from MBHO and Josephson, I may be wrong). But then you’re also paying for un-needed metal-work, so if you thought the other true CK12-types were expensive…

 

[Tim Campbell]

Does Haun really have less experience? Haven’t they been making capsules for upwards of 30 years?

Haun was the first company to make "brass" CK12 capsules after AKG stopped producing this ( it was hard getting a Haun capsule even as far back as 2004), then Josephson, then me, then Telefunken, Dale Ulan produced a few right around this time also. I may be confusing the exact order but I believe after that it was Heiserman, OPR, then Beesneez.

 

[GeorgeToledo]

Haun was the first company to make "brass" CK12 capsules after AKG stopped producing this, then Josephson, then me, then Telefunken, Dale Ulan produced a few right around this time also. I may be confusing the exact order but I believe after that it was Heiserman, OPR, then Beesneez.

When did Lawson start doing their CK12 in that timeline?

Obviously it is not aimed at being exact with the 3mil mylar and different cosmetics, but I think it has an inner construction that is multichambered.

Haun used to supply Josephson; is Josephson’s basically a clone of the Haun?

 

[Tim Campbell]

When did Lawson start doing their CK12 in that timeline.

Obviously it is not aimed at being exact with the 3mil mylar and different cosmetics, but I think it has an inner construction that is multichambered.

Haun used to supply Josephson; is Josephson’s basically a clone of the Haun?

Ooops I forgot about Lawson. I am unsure but possibly around or just after I started actually selling mine. Yes the Lawson is multichambered. There was the Korby also but that came a bit later and to be honest was really poorly made and very inconsistent.

Yes Haun supplied Josephson and then Josephson started producing their own version. Both are modeled on the AKG but the have their own slight cosmetic differences. The original Haun was meant to only operate on 48v phantom power. If used at 60v polarization they would collapse.

 

[OPR]

Haun was the first company to make "brass" CK12 capsules after AKG stopped producing this ( it was hard getting a Haun capsule even as far back as 2004), then Josephson, then me, then Telefunken, Dale Ulan produced a few right around this time also. I may be confusing the exact order but I believe after that it was Heiserman, OPR, then Beesneez.

I think the order on the last three were Hiserman, Beez, then O.P.R .
I had a Lawson Ck12 in a couple of weeks back that a customer wanted me to install in my 251,it wasn't an accurate Ck12 as it had a single back plate and the rear rejection was not great only about -7db at 1k it had not a lot of low end. could have been faulty but was brand new out of the box...

 

[Tim Campbell]

I had a Lawson Ck12 in a couple of weeks back that a customer wanted me to install in my 251,it wasn't an accurate Ck12 as it had a single back plate and the rear rejection was not great only about -7db at 1k it had not a lot of low end. could have been faulty but was brand new out of the box...

That sounds a lot different than the one I had in here years ago. Very simple construction with self tapping screws, etc. and really setup to only work well with their preamp/tube.

 

[OPR]

That sounds a lot different than the one I had in here years ago. Very simple construction with self tapping screws, etc. and really setup to only work well with their preamp/tube.

Strange... I don't know how old the capsule was as a customer sent it to me, so he could have had it sitting around who knows...

For those interested in my capsule here's some info an measurements that I just made of my latest Ck12 incarnation there may be some bumps in the measurement as they were done in a 5 x 6 meter room. I'll do some more measurements outside under better conditions over Christmas.
The diaphragm capacitance on this O.P.R Ck12 is 81.5 front and 82 rear. I generally set them between about 78 and 85 PF with about 1= 1.5 PF tolerance front to back.

Measurements were taken in a c12 circuit with open weave head-basket.

 

[Khron]

Measurements were taken in a c12 circuit with open weave head-basket.

These being "absolute" measurements, or referenced to some measurement / reference mic?

 

[OPR]

These being "absolute" measurements, or referenced to some measurement / reference mic

The reference mic is a beyer MM1 measurement mic

 

[youngshu]

We could live in a world were none of these things are available for DIY. I am too young but from what I hear the privilege to build these Mics with these parts is relatively new. While we all are looking for value and afraid waste our money, we need to remember that.

The people who make these capsules are absolute Gems that we should celebrate. Again we are all afraid of being taken advantage of in regards to price and scarcity, value and quality, but the people who are providing these Capsules as hand built high quality items are clearly on our side. They share the same love for this as we do. I have been upset about not hearing from someone before so Im not perfect either but when I take a step back and look at everything I realize I eventually was able to build what I wanted and am blown away with the sound.

Dont let something like a Mic capsule availability upset you to the point where you go on a forum and attack people. Everyone here including the people you are trying to buy from love the same thing we are all on the same side. We all get upset when things dont go the way we want if anyone thinks less of you for that they are forgetting a time when they did the same lol.

Also JHS Pedals has a great video on there channel talking about what its like being a manufacture of pedals and profit margins and business dealings. I recommend everyone on the forum go watch that and then consider everything he is saying Is done by one man. It will give you perspective on why it takes so long for a reply.

 

[kingkorg]

Strange... I don't know how old the capsule was as a customer sent it to me, so he could have had it sitting around who knows...

For those interested in my capsule here's some info an measurements that I just made of my latest Ck12 incarnation there may be some bumps in the measurement as they were done in a 5 x 6 meter room. I'll do some more measurements outside under better conditions over Christmas.
The diaphragm capacitance on this O.P.R Ck12 is 81.5 front and 82 rear. I generally set them between about 78 and 85 PF with about 1= 1.5 PF tolerance front to back.

Measurements were taken in a c12 circuit with open weave head-basket.

This is excellent! Thank you. And they look awesome! Omni and f8 show considerably different curve changes contra cardioid compared to how k67/k47 would look like.

Just something to keep in mind. I used to use MM1 as a reference mic, however i found that the calibration file they provided with my serial was not accurate, it performed more accurately without the cal. file.

Just if you feel comfortable sharing, no pressure, what is the capacitance between the backplates in your CK12?

 

[thomasdf]

Also JHS Pedals has a great video on there channel talking about what its like being a manufacture of pedals and profit margins and business dealings.

JHS, do you mean the company that steals other brand’s designs and DIY community designs and makes profit with it ?

 

[youngshu]

JHS, do you mean the company that steals other brand’s designs and DIY community designs and makes profit with it ?

That’s not the point of the video. What did you think I was saying with my post? Did you just read JHS and wanted to say they are bad? I think you are missing the point.

 

[youngshu]

That’s not the point of the video. What did you think I was saying with my post? Did you just read JHS and wanted to say they are bad? I think you are missing the point.

The point is the insight into business and how capsule manufactures have a lot on there plate being one man shows. But you wanted to say JHS is bad. We got it you don’t like JHS I don’t really have an opinion on them I truly don’t care. The point was the parallel in business understanding. I’m sorry the example struck a nerve with you my friend.

 

[GeorgeToledo]

JHS has a staff of several people, as do many capsule makers. I think the idea that everything is done by one person is not so accurate.

 

[kingkorg]

The point is the insight into business and how capsule manufactures have a lot on there plate being one man shows. But you wanted to say JHS is bad. We got it you don’t like JHS I don’t really have an opinion on them I truly don’t care. The point was the parallel in business understanding. I’m sorry the example struck a nerve with you my friend.

I actually wanted to share that video, I thought it was insightful, and shows very well what goes into product pricing. It serves well as a reality check for customers to realize they are not paying just for the sum of parts but logistics, brandname, R&D...

However the reason i haven't posted it, is some things i think Josh gets wrong. He says every product, even a pure rip-off costs money to develop, and has some R&D involved. This is true. However, why would I spend my money paying US wages for an US company to "reverse engineer" and "R&D" someone else's stuff, if i can support any company anywhere on the planet that makes truly unique products that involve real engineers, scientists with serious education and heritage in a certain area.


It's like paying a hacker for hacked software.

I'm not saying JHS hasn't created unique stuff.

He puts also weight on the fact he produces stuff in the US, which nobody cares about except people living in the US.

I like Josh a lot, he had guts to put that video out!!!