L251 Capsule - anyone use one? Also CK12 options in general.

[Accelerator]

Does that mean that Haun capsules are available directly to the public? If so, what’s the best way to order them, and do you know the price?

Hi @OneRoomStudio and greetings from Greece.

As I know the BSA Microphones

https://bsa-microphones.ch/rs2

Use the Haun / MBHO ka1000n “CK12 capsule” for their microphones, but I don’t know if they have any will to support the DIY market with the Haun / MBHO ka1000n “CK12 capsule(s)”, although they are open about it (as they said…) for their metal-works…

So give them (BSA Microphones) a call to see what will happen about the MBHO ka1000n “CK12 capsule(s)” and keep in your mind that the Haun / MBHO ka1000n “CK12 capsule(s)” they are very expensive ones, with prices over plus+++ 450 Euros and actually they are not a “close take” to AKG CK12 capsule(s), but rather they sound neutral, smooth and a little bit “dark”, something more like a ‘50’s AKG CK-12 “Flat-Shallow Dish (50’s AKG C12, AKG-Siemens SM-203, AKG C-414-EB) over the ‘60’s AKG Deep Dish CK-12 (AKG-Telefunken ELA-M 250, 251E, AKG C-24)…

https://bsa-microphones.ch/contact-form

 

[garp]

Garp, if you have samples that sound great to back up your claims then post them

This capsule was on the upright bass at the Jazz at Vienne festival in front of 3000 people, i had nothing than compliments for the sound (also for the piano with Arienne's K47) by lot of ingeneers and musicians ! Sure that a video will pop up soon (El comité jazz a vienne 2024).
I want to APOLOGIES @kingkorg, he is right and the polar patterns are way off on these capsules (again i didn't noticed because i am mostly using omni mode) but i like the overall results on my 414 clone (capsule is not peeky and that's the most important thing for me !) .

 

[johnsonic]

So, has anyone used an L251?

 

[Accelerator]

So, has anyone used an L251?

Hi @johnsonic and greetings from Greece.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but with this price of $1,195.00 U.S.D. for the L251 Quick Change™ Capsule, and the price of $895.00 U.S.D. for the L251 Capsule DIY only, I don’t see anyone out there to be so “nut” to buy it for use it…

L251 Quick Change™ Capsule $1,195.00

https://www.lawsonmicrophones.com/product-page/l251-quick-change-capsule

L251 Capsule DIY $895.00

https://www.lawsonmicrophones.com/product-page/l251-capsule-diy

 

[Tim Campbell]

Here is a comparison to one of my capsules from 2012 but I have changed and improved my capsule since then.



https://decibellie.wordpress.com/20...s-l251-capsule-to-tim-campbells-ct12-capsule/

 

[johnsonic]

@Accelerator - yep, they are spendy! Sort of why I was asking.

@Tim - I did run across that article! Would love to hear your new capsule but have been in your queue for over a couple years, still looking forward to that day.

Thank you both for your feedback!

 

[kingkorg]

I want to APOLOGIES @kingkorg, he is right and the polar patterns are way off on these capsules (again i didn't noticed because i am mostly using omni mode) but i like the overall results on my 414 clone (capsule is not peeky and that's the most important thing for me !) .

Thank you, i appreciate it

 

[Tim Campbell]

This capsule was on the upright bass at the Jazz at Vienne festival in front of 3000 people, i had nothing than compliments for the sound (also for the piano with Arienne's K47) by lot of ingeneers and musicians ! Sure that a video will pop up soon (El comité jazz a vienne 2024).
I want to APOLOGIES @kingkorg, he is right and the polar patterns are way off on these capsules (again i didn't noticed because i am mostly using omni mode) but i like the overall results on my 414 clone (capsule is not peeky and that's the most important thing for me !) .

So a capsule that can only operate in omni is well manufactured and performs better than a well made, multi pattern CK12 capsule?
What about all the posts about how well it was machined and sounds. If I or any other manufacturer sold a capsule like that it would ruin our reputation.

I would still love to order and test some. Someone with the link please provide it.

 

[garp]

Tim i never pretended that this capsule performs better than yours ! Yours is like non existent for the common human i am. The chinese capsules i bought delivers a sound pleasing to my ears, with generous lows and airy highs. Who really cares if this capsules matches 1:1 an hypothetic original CK12 response ? (that nobody can really be sure because they are all over the place). So what really left ? Ears rules in that case and the best capsule is always the one achieving the best audible results for me , period.

 

[Tim Campbell]

In the meantime, somewhere in china, a huge factory with decades of building capsules suddenly decided to replicate this gem. The quality of craftmanship is outstanding (and judging by pictures far better than yours). considering the fact that i can buy four of them (and some free beers) for the price of one of yours Beesneez or any available in the market i can be confident that it is by far the best available choice. Even at the aliexpress price i think it's a bargain. With my experience in think i can smell snake oil better than a hunting dog, and from what i've heard your CK12 doesn't meet everyone expectations, so i retire my offer to buy one of yours and ordered 4 more chinese CK12 ... and currently drinking my free beers ! cheers !

 

[garp]

Again Tim i would be so glad to give a try to your products but from what i've heard it will not meet my expectations in term of frequency response, tonal balance, warmth put the name you want. I am clearly not responsible of the multiple comments on your capsule, the Beesneez or the OPR. Each and everyone in the CK12 "business" had several revisions and constantly improving their products, in this case it is hard to have a strict opinion. From all the samples i've heard now (some fellows in this forum were kind enough to PM me some samples of the different CK12's they had in different circuits) i think the OPR is more what i like to ear in a CK12, i am not convinced by all other stuff i've heard

 

[Tim Campbell]

Again Tim i would be so glad to give a try to your products but from what i've heard it will not meet my expectations in term of frequency response, tonal balance, warmth put the name you want. I am clearly not responsible of the multiple comments on your capsule, the Beesneez or the OPR. Each and everyone in the CK12 "business" had several revisions and constantly improving their products, in this case it is hard to have a strict opinion. From all the samples i've heard now (some fellows in this forum were kind enough to PM me some samples of the different CK12's they had in different circuits) i think the OPR is more what i like to ear in a CK12, i am not convinced by all other stuff i've heard

I thought that you just purchased 4 more Chinese capsules and were completely satisfied drinking your free beer. Good to know that you are dissatisfied by capsules you have never heard. Please stick to the subject so that this thread also doesn't end up being locked.

 

[garp]

Your capsules can be heard Tim, same for the beesneez the OPR ... But anyway , the moment your capsules will be available for simple mortals i'll maybe consider them. Now that i have to deal with something AVAILABLE, I'll go for the cheap chinese, knowing that at this price my disapointment will be downsized, at the opposite i can't count the times where in have invested in expensive so called "marvelous capsules" replicas , that never never delivers something usable ...

 

[Tim Campbell]

You have repeatedly stated that only your ears in a real world setting were the ultimate measurement. As I said for everybody's sake if you are going to contribute just leave all this personal vitriol out.

 

[Tim Campbell]

So, has anyone used an L251?

 

[garp]

Tim sorry i'll not reply to you, i estimate this forum to be a free space . Regarding this mystery chinese capsule @kingkorg i managed to get a better capacitor meter, the one i used was way off in the pf domain. I got 70pf between face 1 and bckplate, 29pf between face 2 and his backplate and 50pf between the 2 backplates. I don't know what a real CK12 is supposed to give but obviously the two sides are not "exactly" matched to say the least (chinese precision ?) !
When i was young we were invaded with cheap and crap products made in ... Japan. The first products were most of the time awful if at least working. Then year after year they involved in their process and constantly improved. End of the 70's some product begin to appear (99% Stolen western patents ) that were so good and still so cheap compared to the western products that a consensus tend to emerge that these product were in fact inferior designs and manufacture quality. Roland synths ? Pure crap in front of the oberheim moog and sequential ! In fact 50 years later my MQS80 is still working when had to service all my moogs oberheim or sequential numerous times. Same for cars (think early toyotas) bikes (i earned several BSA Ducati's but the yamaha's and honda's of that era simply rocks ! ) hifi systems etc ... to the point that now a Japanese product is categorized Hi end in 2024. IMHO we are seeing the exact same process occuring in china. With the years their quality constantly improved, they are a very skilled intelligent and concerned people. We (the western companies) asked them to produce at the lowest price possible but believe me, their aim as human skilled people is to be the best at their job, not considered just to able to produce cheap crap stuff.

 

[garp]

@Tim Campbell I took the time to read the interesting review detailing the differences between your capsule and Gene's and saw that :

Put into a mix, both capsules “fit” and sound great. It often depended on the style of music more than anything. The exaggerations of Tim’s capsule on this microphone gave it the edge when looking for those attributes (super proximity effect and super high-end breath). If those attributes weren’t welcome, then it seemed to be a little bit too much “out there” compared to Gene’s capsule.

And this resumed my assertions : i am not a fanatic of sub lows and peaky hi's, that's my taste and as far as i know the taste of many around me. That is certainly why our opinions diverge, again see no offense

 

[Accelerator]

Hi @Tim Campbell and greetings from Greece.

This “question” about the L251 Capsule staying “open” and un-answered for nearly 2 whole years old in this DIY Community – Group and no one of the 27.462 Members of this Group haven’t answering by a simple “Yes, I Do…” because for the price of $895.00 U.S.D. that the L251 Capsule DIY only cost (not including the shipping fee, the high customs, the VAT, etc…) every musician & music engineer in Europe (including me with the high 24% VAT) can buy…

Austrian Audio OC818 Studio Set 999 €

https://www.thomann.de/gr/austrian_audio_oc818_studio_set.htm

In the same way for the price of $1,195.00 U.S.D. that the L251 Quick Change™ Capsule only cost, (again not including the shipping fee, the high customs, the VAT, etc…) every musician & music engineer in Europe (including me with the high 24% VAT) can buy…

Austrian Audio OC18 Dual Set Plus 1.399 €

https://www.thomann.de/gr/austrian_audio_oc18_dual_set_plus.htm

And with the Austrian Audio mics, we can all make our job done…

If you have to consider it for just one moment, these over-ultra-high prices by the Lawson Co. for these Lawson capsules and the Un-availability for someone out there (including me or everybody else…) to get capsules direct by You, by MBHO – Haun, by Heiserman etc… is the “Grease” for making this Chin-o-Canadian Copy-cut “machine” to “work” well, for promoting and selling their products…

 

[Tim Campbell]

i managed to get a better capacitor meter, the one i used was way off in the pf domain. I got 70pf between face 1 and bckplate, 29pf between face 2 and his backplate and 50pf between the 2 backplates. I don't know what a real CK12 is supposed to give but obviously the two sides are not "exactly" matched to say the least (chinese precision ?) !

I am sorry to say but any capsule manufactured to these tolerances you post is shoddily built and not worth 60 USD. These measurements have no relationship to what you should find on a CK12 capsule.

@Tim Campbell I took the time to read the interesting review detailing the differences between your capsule and Gene's and saw that :


And this resumed my assertions : i am not a fanatic of sub lows and peaky hi's, that's my taste and as far as i know the taste of many around me. That is certainly why our opinions diverge, again see no offense

Since you have never heard my capsule in person and can only judge it by quoting 3rd parties or a 12 year old review that the writer prefaced by saying he was unfamiliar with the circuit in the mic and couldn't really comment on the outcome of his findings. You have no way of knowing if Lawson tailored their mics to adjust for a lack of highs or lows in their capsule. The writer never mentions "peaky" highs or "sub lows" those are your exaggerations.

How about if we stick to the topic and our experiences and stop with all the guessing and feelings just out of resentment.
This thread is about the Lawson capsule and not about me or you for that matter. See no offence

Just email or message me with all this personal stuff and give everybody else a break.

 

[garp]

This topic is called L251 and also CK12 options ... And yes i have heard your capsule

But again ... why should i care if it is unavailable ?