Brexit

[ruffrecords]

Just like the child catcher in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

Cheers

Ian

 

[malnatim]

i'm not trying to defend may, but i hope everyone can somehow manage to forgive her. the intense level of hate directed at her from all is frightening. the pressure and loneliness must be unbearable. i don't think it's too early to say this. we live in such cruel times. i worry that there's no thoughts of forgiveness. people seem to want their spring sacrifice. her position as alive will become untenable.

before anyone shouts at me. i'm not supporting her. she needs to apologise and show contrition. her apology to the conservative mps who lost their seats, rather than the nation was disgusting. they absolutely "deserve" to go if their constituents voted accordingly.

i expect many feel there can't be forgiveness until she goes. i'm sure she'd like nothing more than a hole in the ground to appear and swallow her up. but the tories will hold on to her until the timing suits them. then she'll be torn to pieces.

imo corbyn should lead a call for forgiveness. even if only as shrewd political tactic. this would surely further enhance his standing. he doesn't have a great record of dealing with the hateful venom of some of his supporters. this is an opportunity to try and make amends.

 

[micaddict]

As the saying goes "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".
She chose for a life in the kitchen.
Not only that, she chose to stir up the fire some more.

That said, yes forgiveness is what we need a lot more of.
And yes, humble apologies make it a lot easier to forgive someone ...

 

[DaveP]

i'm not trying to defend may, but i hope everyone can somehow manage to forgive her. the intense level of hate directed at her from all is frightening. the pressure and loneliness must be unbearable. i don't think it's too early to say this. we live in such cruel times. i worry that there's no thoughts of forgiveness. people seem to want their spring sacrifice. her position as alive will become untenable.

You make a lot of sense and your sentiments are admirable, but it's dog eat dog in her industry.

I have a friend who rose up to be a director at the home office, the stress of the job where mistakes can lose everything, finally gave him cancer on his retirement.

The biggest danger in politics is listening to the sycophants in the Westminister bubble.  They need to get out more and listen to the people direct, then debacles like this wouldn't happen.

DaveP

 

[Script]

They need to get out more and listen to the people direct, then debacles like this wouldn't happen.

1+ Easier said than done though, cos politicians often work 14-hour days already.

 

[malnatim]

i agree. there's been millions wasted on this election and the useless pre-election polls. almost 1 year since the eu referendum has also been wasted. imo rather than an election there should have been a huge survey of the uk re. details of leaving eu. this would've given all voices the chance to offer their opinion. given the far reaching consequences of leaving, the negotiating position shouldn't be left to one party, let alone just a handful of people. a survey of the uk to help decide on what type of negotiating position to pursue would provide a genuine mandate that the eu would find hard to ignore. the survey should be reviewed by all parties and hopefully provide some much needed unity across the uk. removing the eu referendum issue from partisan politics would help solve many of the problems we now have and would be a huge relief to most politicians. i don't want one or two politicians to bear the ridiculous burden of this responsibility for their sake or ours.

 

[malnatim]

You make a lot of sense and your sentiments are admirable, but it's dog eat dog in her industry.

I have a friend who rose up to be a director at the home office, the stress of the job where mistakes can lose everything, finally gave him cancer on his retirement.

The biggest danger in politics is listening to the sycophants in the Westminister bubble.  They need to get out more and listen to the people direct, then debacles like this wouldn't happen.

DaveP

yes, this is exactly what i was implying re. possibility of stress manifesting as cancer. that's terrible about your friend. i'm sorry.

i agree, it can be dog eat dog. but i don't think we should blindly accept that this is the only way. as we've been having to face-up to the institutionalised pedophilia of the recent past, we also review a culture of institutionalised bullying that is often quite closely related. i'm not some head-in-the-clouds idealist. politics should often be aggressive and highly competitive. the eu's surprise at some of the combative rhetoric from the uk reminds that much of uk politics and media is just too unpleasant and this is often a hinderance to getting things done. this ridiculous election has left near everyone losers. may's bully advisors hill and timothy fired, an apparent rejection of negative campaigning and vile press… imo these things need to be capitalised upon and directed towards something positive.

 

[Script]

A Tory-Labour coalition?

 

[micaddict]

Now that would provide a majority.  ;D

They sort of did the same in my country BTW.
And for the first time in ages, this very coalition lasted full term!

 

[sahib]

i'm not trying to defend may, but i hope everyone can somehow manage to forgive her.

I have nothing against her. Its just that I did not vote for her.

But I don't understand why I should forgive her if I was one of her senior ministers who lost his/her job because of her arrogance and sheer stupidity.

I have a statistician friend (and a superb mathematician) who can not answer any question without giving you a through analysis in advance. So, I don't believe that she was not told by somebody of at least equal calibre that they already had the majority, and the margin over and above this majority was not worth taking the risk of going for an election just for the "killing". So, she fell on her own sword and I am afraid she has to take responsibility for everything that comes her way.

And doing a deal with DUP will come back to haunt her and the conservatives. So, one mistake after another.

As Osborne said, she is a dead woman walking. 

......the intense level of hate directed at her from all is frightening.

I do not see any hate coming from those who did not vote for her. So, you should re-phrase that "all".

However though, she has ridiculed Corbyn before the election and now we all know who is gut laughing.

 

[Script]

I don't believe that she was not told by somebody of at least equal calibre that they already had the majority, and the margin over and above this majority was not worth taking the risk

Just what I meant earlier. Maybe, just maybe, she ain't stupid and arrogant, but is very clever after all, having had some nagging doubts about the referendum outcome herself. So she hoped for reassurance. That's fair enough a motive for calling out reelections (that is, if you are a politician with a conscience). Having accepted the 'acting UKIP Brexiteer' role as prime minister earlier, of course, she now can't initiate an approach toward anything left of the Tories...

I'm not saying she's a mole, but might be waiting for a phone call. Did C approach her?

 

[sahib]

Just what I meant earlier. Maybe, just maybe, she ain't stupid and arrogant, but is very clever after all, having had some nagging doubts about the referendum outcome herself.  So she hoped for reassurance. ..
.........

I did not suggest she was stupid but what she did was a very stupid thing to do, and arrogance had a big role in it.

She did not have any more  assurance. The people gave her the mandate to leave EU. 

She made the fundamental mistake of saying that no deal was better than a bad deal. That to me looks like a weakness to start with. You don't say things like that. You make deals. End of story.

And, brushing - off the customs union membership option? Total idiots. That's your ticket to the single market even if it is in limited form. No tariffs on anything comes from Europe into UK, and no tariffs on anything goes into Europe from UK.  How could that be a bad deal?

I'm not saying she's a mole, but might be waiting for a phone call. Did C approach her?

You mean Corbyn?

Perhaps.

From behind with a knife  ;D

 

[DaveP]

I think the simple truth is this.

Prime minister Brown was in the same position as May (crowned not elected) but chose not to go to the country when they were right behind him.  When he had to have an election, the credit crunch had happened and he was doomed.

May did have an election but did not stick to the Brexit script and tried to sneak all kinds of irrelevant junk in the manifesto because she thought (or was told she could), that is what screwed her.

They are talking about Boris to replace her, but I think that Ruth Davidson would be far better.  Just think, a Scottish Lesbian, what could be better at bringing the Tories into the 21st century and securing the young vote?  She is also a very eloquent conviction politician.

DaveP

 

[Script]

Michael Gove resurrected? Seriously? Unless May really is much cleverer than we all think

 

[sahib]

Good move to keep Boris Johnson at his corner.

 

[Script]

Oh that Boris guy, blimey!

But makes me wonder whether Izzard still plans on running for office as mayor of London in 2020. Sorry, change of topic.

 

[micaddict]

Nice couple to rule the world.

https://doppleronline.ca/huntsville/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/TrumpJohnson-702x336.jpg

The empire strikes back.

 

[sahib]

But makes me wonder whether Izzard still plans on running for office as mayor of London in 2020. Sorry, change of topic.

I would like that happen but unfortunately I do not think it will. I remember Glenda Jackson going into politics. I think it was 1990.  She lasted well though.

 

[tands]

“Kensington is a tale of two cities. The south part of Kensington is incredibly wealthy, it’s the wealthiest part of the whole country,” he said.

“The ward where this fire took place is, I think, the poorest ward in the whole country and properties must be found - requisitioned if necessary - to make sure those residents do get re-housed locally.

“It can’t be acceptable that in London we have luxury buildings and luxury flats left empty as land banking for the future while the homeless and the poor look for somewhere to live. We have to address these issues.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-calls-on-government-to-requisition-luxury-homes-for-the-grenfell-tower-fire-homeless_uk_5942b29be4b01eab7a2c179f?ncid=engmodushpmg00000004

 

[Script]

May asking other parties for suggestions regarding Brexit? What's the story? Her coming to her senses (realizing and respecting the outcome of the latest election) or her responding superficially to Chuka Umunna, Anna Soubry et al.?