Brexit

[ruffrecords]

May asking other parties for suggestions regarding Brexit? What's the story? Her coming to her senses (realizing and respecting the outcome of the latest election) or her responding superficially to Chuka Umunna, Anna Soubry et al.?

None of the above. Whatever people say, the fact is the Tories got more votes than any other party in the last election. The fact she did not get enough seats for.a comfortable majority is the problem. There is still a bunch of die hards who want to see her fail and for the UK to get a shi..y deal.To be frank I am totally pi..sed off with all this stupid backbiting. It is a good job there is not a war on or we would really be in the doo doo. It is time to stand together and sort this thing out.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Script]

Whatever people say, the fact is the Tories got more votes than any other party in the last election.

Sure taken for granted by now. However, politics is not about the outcome of single elections (or referendums) but about making things fly, things that affect everybody.

There is still a bunch of die hards who want to see her fail [...]

Yes, I can imagine easily. Not one single government in the world free of criticism.

[...] and for the UK to get a shi..y deal.

However, I don't follow this part. What Brits in their right minds would want Britain to get a bad deal? That cannot be in the interest of any British citizens, no matter what party they support or belong to.

It is time to stand together and sort this thing out.

Exactly. So what is the story behind May asking other parties for suggestions? Sure, May simply can't propagate a different stance all of a sudden without risking credibility (political suicide). But does 'standing together' not involve sitting down together and hearing out the other side? With a step as huge as leaving the EU, defining relations with the rest of the world and coming up with a vision of how to shape domestic life, all of Britain better sat together and talked things over soon. Time is of the essence.

I haven't followed British news too closely, but are media, people and politicians STILL b.itching about the latest election results and quoting the referendum outcome? I'd think that all of that has been overtaken by reality by now.

So, again, what is the story? Any progress to be seen in both domestic reconciliation and political vision?

 

[ruffrecords]

However, I don't follow this part. What Brits in their right minds would want Britain to get a bad deal? That cannot be in the interest of any British citizens, no matter what party they support or belong to.

Are you serious? You never heard of someone profiting by another's downfall. As you said earlier, that's what politics is about.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Script]

You seem to have a very low opinion of politicians. A stance that I mostly share  8)

 

[madswitcher]

Are you serious? You never heard of someone profiting by another's downfall. As you said earlier, that's what politics is about.

Cheers

Ian

A prime example, being that Prime Minister May invited the other political parties if they would contribute to the Brexit planning.  Rather than doing so for the good of the nation, they went straight into critical mode deriding her offer.

In a similar vein, has anyone else noticed the parallels between the current Labour party and another well known 'national socialist' party that had a charismatic leader, anti-Semitic trends, and set of bully boys who made its members cow down to its leader if they didn't agree with him   

Cheers

Mike

 

[Script]

Labour likened to Nazi?? 

I see. No progress it seems -- on any side.

 

[DaveP]

A prime example, being that Prime Minister May invited the other political parties if they would contribute to the Brexit planning.  Rather than doing so for the good of the nation, they went straight into critical mode deriding her offer.

In a similar vein, has anyone else noticed the parallels between the current Labour party and another well known 'national socialist' party that had a charismatic leader, anti-Semitic trends, and set of bully boys who made its members cow down to its leader if they didn't agree with him   

+1
Labour party taken over by Socialist Workers (Momentum), just like the 80's with Militant Tendency.
Current Labour voters too young to have seen it first time around.

DaveP

 

[sahib]

A prime example, being that Prime Minister May invited the other political parties if they would contribute to the Brexit planning.  Rather than doing so for the good of the nation, they went straight into critical mode deriding her offer.

Are you telling me that she has no political agenda for this?

She made the deal with DUP and now has the majority. Why is she asking others' help?  Just get on with the damn job.

May be she realises that the DUP deal will end up on her face at some point and she is looking to minimise the damage.

In a similar vein, has anyone else noticed the parallels between the current Labour party and another well known 'national socialist' party that had a charismatic leader, anti-Semitic trends, and set of bully boys who made its members cow down to its leader if they didn't agree with him   

Cheers

Mike

Really? 

How about the conservative MPs who were made to cow to May for her decision to unnecessarily call for a general election and as a result lost their jobs?

I am not sure which that "another" national socialist party you are referring to, but if you are going to draw parallels for labour then try to do a bit better than reaching out to the "anti-Semitic" cliché.  Not agreeing with Israel's middle -east politics has nothing to do with being an anti-Semite. Stop this non-sense.

 

[madswitcher]

Are you telling me that she has no political agenda for this?

She made the deal with DUP and now has the majority. Why is she asking others' help?  Just get on with the damn job.

May be she realises that the DUP deal will end up on her face at some point and she is looking to minimise the damage.

Really? 

How about the conservative MPs who were made to cow to May for her decision to unnecessarily call for a general election and as a result lost their jobs?

I am not sure which that "another" national socialist party you are referring to, but if you are going to draw parallels for labour then try to do a bit better than reaching out to the "anti-Semitic" cliché.  Not agreeing with Israel's middle -east politics has nothing to do with being an anti-Semite. Stop this non-sense.

Have a look at the news today about the government suggesting that "MPs should work together on Brexit".  Agenda or not, it is a move to involve others.

Have a look at the recent news about the Labour party's anti-jewish activities to its own members - nothing to do with Israel's middle east politics.

Have a look at the Labour parties'purge' of moderates who have opinions that don't agree with Corbyn's and the threats to replace them with staunch supporters.

Have a read of DaveP's post of what happened in the 70's and 80's within the Labour party.

I partly agree with you on one point however, I suspect that many Conservative MPs  have personal financial incentives not to support Brexit.  Maybe May's objectives was to get them out in the open and follow the line voted for by the majority of the country instead of grumbling and back-biting from the back benches.  Also, there is no such thing as a 'poor' Conservative MP: they have their fingers in many pies and will not be worse off for loosing their seats.  I used to do contract work in that environment.

Mike

 

[sahib]

Have a look at the news today about the government suggesting that "MPs should work together on Brexit".  Agenda or not, it is a move to involve others.

That is my point. You are "the" government. You have the majority and get on with the job. Don't drag your feet with things like involving others. 

Having said that I rate David Davis highly, even though it turned out that he had his share of the cock-up of calling the general election.

Have a look at the recent news about the Labour party's anti-jewish activities to its own members - nothing to do with Israel's middle east politics.

I must have missed it. Which news paper?  But even based on that news do you suggest that Labour party is anti-Semitic?

Have a look at the Labour parties'purge' of moderates who have opinions that don't agree with Corbyn's and the threats to replace them with staunch supporters.

I don't believe in partisan politics and I am certainly not a die-hard voter of any party. But at the same time we don't really know what these moderates' views are which don't agree with  Corbyn,. But we all know that the reason they have been so vile against him before the election because they believed that under his leadership they would have a bad election result hence lose their jobs. 

Do you think Kinnock went because everybody agreed with him? No.  As I said I don't believe in partisan politics but at the end of the day that's a place dog eats dog. It is not all that lovey dovey, wooley jumper politics.

Have a read of DaveP's post of what happened in the 70's and 80's within the Labour party.
[/quote

That was 70's and 80's politics. I don't believe it will happen again. Yes there is a group that still lives with the socialist utopia but that does not mean the new management as a whole is utopic.

I partly agree with you on one point however, I suspect that many Conservative MPs  have personal financial incentives not to support Brexit. 

I don't see anything wrong with that.  At the end of the day the entire economy is based on personal incentives. 

Maybe May's objectives was to get them out in the open and follow the line voted for by the majority of the country instead of grumbling and back-biting from the back benches. 

I don't think so. I believe she is a light weight and dragging her feet.

Also, there is no such thing as a 'poor' Conservative MP: they have their fingers in many pies and will not be worse off for loosing their seats.  I used to do contract work in that environment.
Mike

I would not say that but I'll take your word for it.

 

[ruffrecords]

Looks like some of the kids tried to fiddle the result of the recent election by voting twice. Idiots boasted about it on social media.

Cheers

Ian

 

[madswitcher]

Looks like some of the kids tried to fiddle the result of the recent election by voting twice. Idiots boasted about it on social media.

Cheers

Ian

Interesting.  I went to a lecture last week at the RSA by a guy from Google, who said that a lot of people use search engines and social media like confessional booths.  The examples he gave were things like "I hate my boss" and "My boyfriend won't have sex with me".  Its a bit naive in that they don't seem to understand or appreciate that once its out there it there for ever and that these companies (and others) are hoovering this stuff up and using it for their own end - as per the recent report of Google's academic sponsorship activities.

Cheers

Mike

 

[sahib]

Few years back my wife was invited to give a lecture on PR to a group of students studying politics in a very high calibre university. First thing she did was to dig up some info about the president of the students union and got a newspaper cutting about him giving a quite controversial political statement. She opened her lecture with a slide plastered with his quote and turned round and told him that when he goes into politics this quote will be thrown at him at some point of his career.

As Mike said people in general do not understand the danger of internet. The "millennial" generation has not even got a clue. 

 

[JohnRoberts]

Few years back my wife was invited to give a lecture on PR to a group of students studying politics in a very high calibre university. First thing she did was to dig up some info about the president of the students union and got a newspaper cutting about him giving a quite controversial political statement. She opened her lecture with a slide plastered with his quote and turned round and told him that when he goes into politics this quote will be thrown at him at some point of his career.

As Mike said people in general do not understand the danger of internet. The "millennial" generation has not even got a clue.

Some of the stuff I see "friends" post on FB is embarrassing to even read... and these aren't even millennials.  :

Some millennials are getting educated the hard way when their college applications bounce because of their public views on social media.

JR

PS: I believe the EU is pushing for citizen's right to  erase their internet history... I'll bet business still knows how many eggs they bought at the market.

 

[Script]

DUP'ed again  :

 

[tands]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_PvGXGukN0

 

[Banzai]

It's probably time to accept you're going to get a shitty deal whatever happens. The EU dwarfs Britain politically and economically, and it's on their terms you're leaving. Any other narrative is delusional...

 

[pvision]

It's probably time to accept you're going to get a sh*tty deal whatever happens. The EU dwarfs Britain politically and economically, and it's on their terms you're leaving. Any other narrative is delusional...

Oh I think the majority of sensible Brits realise that only too well. The delusional and stupid may still think that Brexit is a good idea but the rest of us see it for what it is

I see a general election in the Spring unless Theresa May comes up with a cunning plan to get the DUP back on board. Maybe another £1 Billion bribe will do the trick?

Nick Froome

 

[DaveP]

It's probably time to accept you're going to get a sh*tty deal whatever happens. The EU dwarfs Britain politically and economically, and it's on their terms you're leaving. Any other narrative is delusional...

The bizarre thing is, I think we will end up getting the deal they should have given Cameron when he asked before the referendum.

Had they done that there would not have been a majority to leave in the referendum.  All these miscalculations are caused by politicians living in their own little bubble and being out of touch with their electorate.

DaveP

 

[Script]

+1

Hate to quote myself -- no, I don't  -- yes, dig up Cameron's plan. Wouldn't be too bad an option:
not fully part of the EU, but one foot and both hands safely in the door.

Spoke with a British friend the other day. He wondered how much leaving the EU will end up costing each Briton in the end. 'Well', he said, 'can't help but having to pay for it now'. Although, he continued, he'd sure know what better things to do with the money. 'Silly politicians...'

The pot will get stirred up some more, I am sure, but also confident it'll all end well.