Built custom channel for Soundcraft Boards (SSL like)

[TimG]

Maybe that’s the kind of stuff we can capture in notes. It might be useful for fader replacements etc.

 

[ruffrecords]

[I do not see any fixing holes in the front panel for the slider fader] -- There aren't any!!! The two fader mounting screws simply screw into the fader mounting holes at and within both extreme ends of the slot itself. When I dismantled the module, I was initially surprised to see that there weren't any separate mounting holes, but then it also immediately made sense because why go to the extra (ever so teeny-tiny) effort and expense (times umpteen thousands of modules) of fabricating two extra holes when their function can be so easily included within the slot dimensions that is already there!!! DUH!!!.....

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Nice one. I could plainly see the two fader fixing screws in the photo of the front panel so I ASSumed there must be holes. What a neat idea simply to extend the slot.

Edit: so does this mean the two fixing screws sit proud of the panel surface? You see I normally countersink them. Or do they use a special low profile screw? Or something else?

Cheers

Ian

 

[MidnightArrakis]

Nice one. I could plainly see the two fader fixing screws in the photo of the front panel so I ASSumed there must be holes. What a neat idea simply to extend the slot.

Edit: so does this mean the two fixing screws sit proud of the panel surface? You see I normally countersink them. Or do they use a special low profile screw? Or something else?

Cheers

Ian

[the two fixing screws sit proud of the panel surface?] -- Being an "American", I have never heard of the phrase "sit proud of the panel surface", so I have no idea what that means. Does it mean "on top of"? Or, "flush"? Or.....???

[I normally countersink them] -- The sheet-metal used for these modules is too thin to be countersunk, as they are only 0.051" thick (1.295mm thick) at most. I can easily see that these modules can be and are very easily bent-up!!!
[do they use a special low profile screw?] -- Maybe!!! Dunno!!!.....

[Or something else?] -- TimG can probably tell you what is actually used as he has one of these mixers. I'm just the "After-The-Fact / Reverse-Engineer" dude and no -- fixing screws (aka: "mounting screws") -- were supplied with the module channel I have received. The fader fixing/mounting screws height above the module front-panel is around 0.110" (2.794mm), including the thickness of a small lock-washer.

/

 

[ruffrecords]

[the two fixing screws sit proud of the panel surface?] -- Being an "American", I have never heard of the phrase "sit proud of the panel surface", so I have no idea what that means. Does it mean "on top of"? Or, "flush"? Or.....???

It means on top of as opposed to flush.

[I normally countersink them] -- The sheet-metal used for these modules is too thin to be countersunk, as they are only 0.051" thick (1.295mm thick) at most. I can easily see that these modules can be and are very easily bent-up!!!
[do they use a special low profile screw?] -- Maybe!!! Dunno!!!.....

I forgot these are thin steel front panels

[Or something else?] -- TimG can probably tell you what is actually used as he has one of these mixers. I'm just the "After-The-Fact / Reverse-Engineer" dude and no -- fixing screws (aka: "mounting screws") -- were supplied with the module channel I have received. The fader fixing/mounting screws height above the module front-panel is around 0.110" (2.794mm), including the thickness of a small lock-washer.

/

The reason I ask is because I think the fader knob has to be able to pass over this screw without fouling. Most slider faders are designed to be used with a 2.5mm thick panel. With this arrangement and a standard Sifam knob, the bottom of the knob is very close to the top surface of the panel and when it passes over the fixing screw it will foul if the screw is not countersunk. I realise now that with a thin 1.3mm panel, the fader knob will sit at least 2mm higher which means it will clear a domed or cheese head fixing screw. I don't suppose you measured the clearance between the underside of the fader knob and the surface of the panel?


Cheers

Ian

 

[MidnightArrakis]

I don't suppose you measured the clearance between the underside of the fader knob and the surface of the panel?

[I don't suppose you measured the clearance between the underside of the fader knob and the surface of the panel?] -- The module I received to "Reverse-Engineer" arrived without a fader knob. So.....I can't help you out there.

TimG???.....Can you make that measurement and post its dimension here for Ian??? THANKS!!!.....

/

 

[TimG]

I’m only in on one by proxy, but let me ask my friend if he can give it an engineered eye, and tool, if he has one.

 

[S.Samuelsson]

Hi.

I don't suppose you measured the clearance between the underside of the fader knob and the surface of the panel?

On both 200B's I have ATM it's ~4,5mm.
The screw head is ~3mm high, so ~1.5mm clearance to the fader knob.
The fader knobs ride rather high on these consoles, so IME the shafts bend -and sometimes break- quite easily when used for FOH duties.

Regards,
Sam

 

[ruffrecords]

Hi.


On both 200B's I have ATM it's ~4,5mm.
The screw head is ~3mm high, so ~1.5mm clearance to the fader knob.
The fader knobs ride rather high on these consoles, so IME the shafts bend -and sometimes break- quite easily when used for FOH duties.

Regards,
Sam

Thanks Sam, that is just as I suspected. Designed to a price with some compromises in quality/longevity. Nothing wrong with that.

Cheers

Ian

 

[S.Samuelsson]

Hi.

You're welcome Ian.

Designed to a price with some compromises in quality/longevity.

True, a lot of corners were cut because there was a rather precise target group and therefore a price point they were after.
The feature I really do like in 200B is that Soundcraft didn't take the easiest and quickest cost savings road by abandoning the separate channel strips, like so many other manufacturers did.

Nothing wrong with that.

Agreed.
Just like the Trident VFM (got one of those as a project as well), both were IMO elemental in nudging the home- and small scale recording up a notch.
Or a two .

Regards,
Sam

 

[MidnightArrakis]

Hi.


On both 200B's I have ATM it's ~4,5mm.
The screw head is ~3mm high, so ~1.5mm clearance to the fader knob.
The fader knobs ride rather high on these consoles, so IME the shafts bend -and sometimes break- quite easily when used for FOH duties.

Regards,
Sam

I am getting a dimension of -- 0.432" (10.97mm) -- from the module front-panel surface to the top of the fader shaft.

/

 

[ruffrecords]

I am getting a dimension of -- 0.432" (10.97mm) -- from the module front-panel surface to the top of the fader shaft.

/

According to the Sifam catalogue, the top of the fader shaft (known as the Tang) penetrates 4mm into the fader knob. What we don't know is where the top of the tang is relative to the fader fixing holes.

So, looking at an ALPS K fader drawing I see the top of the tang is 8.2 mm +- 0.5mm from the mounting surface of the fader. This type of fader has a T-bar fixing for the knob so it may no be representative of what Soundcraft used.


So if we subtract 4mm, then the underside of the fader knob will be 4.2mm above the fader mounting surface and then subtracting the 1.3mm panel means the gap between the front panel and the bottom of the fader knob should be 2.9mm.

I use these faders with 2.5mm thick panels so the gap then becomes 1.7mm.

These numbers do not really stack up with actual measurements so perhaps Soundcraft used faders with a different height tang.

Cheers

Ian

 

[MidnightArrakis]

According to the Sifam catalogue, the top of the fader shaft (known as the Tang) penetrates 4mm into the fader knob. What we don't know is where the top of the tang is relative to the fader fixing holes.

So, looking at an ALPS K fader drawing I see the top of the tang is 8.2 mm +- 0.5mm from the mounting surface of the fader. This type of fader has a T-bar fixing for the knob so it may no be representative of what Soundcraft used.

So if we subtract 4mm, then the underside of the fader knob will be 4.2mm above the fader mounting surface and then subtracting the 1.3mm panel means the gap between the front panel and the bottom of the fader knob should be 2.9mm.

I use these faders with 2.5mm thick panels so the gap then becomes 1.7mm.

These numbers do not really stack up with actual measurements so perhaps Soundcraft used faders with a different height tang.

Cheers

Ian

OK-A-A-A-A-Y-Y-Y.....I removed the fader from the channel-strip module that I have and measured the "Tang" from the top-surface of the fader to the top of the fader "Tang" (isn't that what the U.S. astronauts drank when they were in outer-space???). I came up with a dimension of -- 0.475" (12.07mm) -- rather somewhat consistently along the length of the fader travel. From there, I guess subtract a nominal 0.051" for the sheet-metal thickness and you're left with -- 0.424" (10.77mm) -- from the top of the sheet-metal channel-strip module to the top of the "Tang" (DANG!!! That stuff is so tasty!!!).

My 2-cents worth.....

/

 

[TimG]

My friend is without tools but he said the gap between the panel surface and the bottom of the fader cap is “5 business cards, or 4 bank cards (without writing) wide”
4mm? Where is my wallet and micrometer?

 

[MidnightArrakis]

My friend is without tools but he said the gap between the panel surface and the bottom of the fader cap is “5 business cards, or 4 bank cards (without writing) wide” 4mm? Where is my wallet and micrometer?

MAN!!! You certainly cannot obtain a more accurate mechanical dimension than that using either of these two techniques now.....can ya??? I wonder if NASA is aware of this??? Is this technique taught in engineering schools??? Just think.....the widespread use of this unique mechanical dimension measuring technique could simply put all of the digital-caliper companies out-of-business!!!

But, if you think about this just for a moment.....while -- EVERYBODY -- has both business cards and credit cards in their wallet or purse all of the time.....who in the heck is always carrying around a digital-caliper in their back-pocket right when you need to accurately measure something??? Think about it!!!.....

/

 

[ruffrecords]

OK-A-A-A-A-Y-Y-Y.....I removed the fader from the channel-strip module that I have and measured the "Tang" from the top-surface of the fader to the top of the fader "Tang" (isn't that what the U.S. astronauts drank when they were in outer-space???). I came up with a dimension of -- 0.475" (12.07mm) -- rather somewhat consistently along the length of the fader travel. From there, I guess subtract a nominal 0.051" for the sheet-metal thickness and you're left with -- 0.424" (10.77mm) -- from the top of the sheet-metal channel-strip module to the top of the "Tang" (DANG!!! That stuff is so tasty!!!).

My 2-cents worth.....

/

OK, so that Tang is somewhat taller than the 8.2mm in the drawing I posted. What shape is the Tang on the one you measured?

Cheers

Ian

 

[S.Samuelsson]

Hi.

perhaps Soundcraft used faders with a different height tang.

I have a hunch they did, and there's no telling what the repair persons have put there over the decades.
On mine (pulled only one standard channel strip, issue 6) the fader is 743M- 10K with a straight ~1.8mm X 7.8mm tang.
The tang penetrates ~7mm into the knob.
I do have one channel strip with a T-tang fader as well, but I strongly suspect that it's not original.


Regards,
Sam

 

[MidnightArrakis]

OK, so that Tang is somewhat taller than the 8.2mm in the drawing I posted. What shape is the Tang on the one you measured?

[What shape is the Tang on the one you measured?] -- Simply a "vertical rectangle" (without the "wings" shown on your version) with a 60-mil (1.52mm) hole centered on the shaft and down 0.150" inch (3.82mm) from the top of the "Tang". (I start off and enjoy a hearty cold glass of "Tang" each and every day!!!).

/