Donald trump. what is your take on him?

[DaveP]

So at least we're following the same logical progression, which is, uhm, progress... thought I understand that must be annoying to a conservative (as opposed to a progressive).....

I used to vote Socialist until it morphed into Identity Politics and Political Correctness, then I lost the plot.

It breaks a country up into factions instead of making them citizens.

The fact that even someone like Trump got elected means I was not alone.

I have lost faith in Political Elites, they lose touch with peoples problems very quickly and they make as many mistakes as any Joe off the street. IMO.

Take Merkel for example, what better way to commit political suicide than to let in 1,000,000 undocumented migrants.  You couldn't make it up.

DaveP

 

[mattiasNYC]

I used to vote Socialist until it morphed into Identity Politics and Political Correctness, then I lost the plot.

It breaks a country up into factions instead of making them citizens.

The fact that even someone like Trump got elected means I was not alone.

Yeah, 'cause he sure has unified the US, hasn't he......

 

[Gold]

I wasn't alive 100 years ago, so cannot comment from first hand observations.

In my judgement there has been a lot of progress (i don't care for that word, but it fits.)

Speaking of 100 years ago, in the 1920's Ku Klux Klan membership exceeded 4 million people... In the 1990s  the klan was estimated to have 6,000 to 10,000 active members mostly in the deep south.

Let's not forget Donald Trump's father was arrested at a Klan rally on Long Island. He idolizes his father.

 

[Gold]

They were also prosecuted for racist housing practices.

Even after the Central Park Five were shown to be innocent beyond a shadow of a doubt he didn't back down.

He has been a racist scumbag his whole life.

 

[Matador]

Does anyone else see a major issue with Trump, head of the executive branch of the government, suggesting people should be fired for exercising their first amendment rights?  Does he not know what 'abridging' means?

 

[tands]

Seems to me pretty common for republican politicians to try to shut people up with that bs. I see nothing  special about the attempt but it's timing. The guy can't shut his ignorant mouth, ever.

God she's horrible though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAIbjAUNXLQ&feature=youtu.be

Thank you Gold for rebutting Daves claim Trump was raised by people without a racist bone in their body, I thought his dad did something along those lines, but I couldn't remember. Got it kind of confused with Bush's granddad selling oil to Hitler when there was a US ban on it.

 

[DaveP]

Thank you Gold for rebutting Daves claim Trump was raised by people without a racist bone in their body, I thought his dad did something along those lines, but I couldn't remember. Got it kind of confused with Bush's granddad selling oil to Hitler when there was a US ban on it.

Please don't twist my words, someone else tries that trick.  All I said was that it was unlikely as he used to be a democrat from the north.  When I get proof he's a racist, then I'll condemn him, until then he has the benefit of the doubt.

DaveP

 

[tands]

I don't think so Dave. First you implied he couldn't be a racist because was from the northern US, then you said that by that you meant that his parents, because they were from the north, did not instill racist beliefs in him. All of this with no basis in any facts at all, just you making random claims to support the idea that Trump isn't a racist. I mean, that's what happened, right?

 

[Gold]

Dave,
Racism in the north is no less virulent than in the south. I'd actually argue that racism has been confronted head on in the South in a way that has never been confronted in the North. It's not in your face but it's there and strong.

Let me say it again. His father who he revers was arrested at a Klan rally.  They were sued by the federal government for racist practices. He called black teenagers animals who were innocent. He perpetuated an implicitly racist myth, birtherism. He called people marching with explicitly racist people "good people". He calls black sports figures "ungrateful" which here means stay in your place. 
It's crystal clear to an American ear.

 

[Gold]

The most virulent racists were Southern Democrats. The parties realigned.

NYC is a one party town. It's was no problem being racist and a Democrat. I have relatives who would fit that description.

 

[DaveP]

I don't think so Dave. First you implied he couldn't be a racist because was from the northern US, then you said that by that you meant that his parents, because they were from the north, did not instill racist beliefs in him. All of this with no basis in any facts at all, just you making random claims to support the idea that Trump isn't a racist. I mean, that's what happened, right?

Without proof and detailed knowledge, all I can do is apply logic until it can be proven otherwise.  Now Gold has come forward with some evidence about his parents.

Look, I will never join lynch mobs of the Left or Right.  I withhold judgement until I see the proof.

Trump is far from perfect, but all his sins appear to be in public via twitter.  Previously revered presidents turned out to have a greats many sins in the closet.  I personally think Obama was a decent president, but even he made mistakes in foreign policy, it is a mistake to expect perfection in a human being.  Even Trump made end up doing some good, even if it is by default, his shake-up at the UN was long overdue, Nikki Haley is doing an excellent job.

DaveP

 

[Gold]

Dave,

No response to the long history of racism in Trump world up to the present? No response to your incorrect assumption that a  Democrat from the north wouldn't likely be racist. 

The only response is  basically bad people can do good things. That's a pretty tepid response. I'm sure he loves his children and takes a shit like the rest of us.

 

[DaveP]

No response to the long history of racism in Trump world up to the present? No response to your incorrect assumption that a  Democrat from the north wouldn't likely be racist.

I said I heard your evidence about his parents and I believe it, it has gone in the judgement pot. He has not had a good upbringing in that respect for sure.  You have the advantage over me because you live in his area, I can only pick up what the media chooses to tell me. 

Your job is to convince me with evidence, not prejudice.  You will find me open to that.

The only response is  basically bad people can do good things. That's a pretty tepid response. I'm sure he loves his children and takes a sh*t like the rest of us

I guess I'm trying to say that even a wrong clock is right twice a day.  I am not paranoid about Trump, I think a president has very limited options in your system, there are safeguards in place.  Does it make a country racist to have control over it's borders?  No, I don't think so.  Does curbing immigration force companies to pay a decent wage? I hope it does.  Is it racist to ban entry from failed states?  No I don't think so, its a matter of security.

The UK, France, Belgium, Germany and even Finland have suffered at the hands of terrorists recently, most of it home grown but not all, there have been recruiters who misguided Muslim losers to do their dirty work for them.

I think that there are some things that the Black population could do to help themselves
1.    Avoid getting into gangs.
2.  Avoid getting into drugs.
3.  Realising that being a man starts with raising a child, not just the conception.
4.  Going as far as possible with their education, we don't need any more rap artists.
5.  Get out of the car when the police ask you to.

These things apply to whites as well, but it seems that black culture is more susceptible to these problems IMO.
What I saw in Obama was a black man who did not come from the hood, he was just as smart as any white guy, but he did not have the baggage of drugs and crime in his environment to hold him back.  In that, he was a great role model and I hope to see some fruit from his example in later years.

DaveP

 

[JohnRoberts]

Let's not forget Donald Trump's father was arrested at a Klan rally on Long Island. He idolizes his father.

According to snopes, the cited newspaper article listed him as "discharged", as compared to others named who were charged with sundry felonious assault charges. 

http://www.snopes.com/donald-trump-father-kkk-1927/

While it’s possible the elder Trump attended the event along with KKK supporters and Klansmen, it’s also possible he was minding his own business in his own neighborhood and got swept up by police after unknowingly finding himself in the middle of an enormous brawl.

The nature of modern political discourse is to believe and repeat the worst possible news about people you disagree with. It is fairly easy to fact check, and the worse the news the less likely to be accurate. Some of the claims about President Obama were fantastic too. 

When in doubt let your fingers do the walking, these days it is easy enough  to check stuff. 


JR

 

[Gold]

You mean a rich guy was able to wiggle out of serious trouble by being discharged instead of charged. Okay. Perfectly innocent.

 

[mattiasNYC]

Does anyone else see a major issue with Trump, head of the executive branch of the government, suggesting people should be fired for exercising their first amendment rights?  Does he not know what 'abridging' means?

This, coupled with his statements post-exoneration of the Central Park Five and his shuffling of DOJ people and statements about it, should cast serious doubts about his concern for the rule of law. I honestly don't think he cares about the constitution one bit, and neither the rule of law.

 

[Gold]

I
I think that there are some things that the Black population could do to help themselves
1.    Avoid getting into gangs.
2.  Avoid getting into drugs.
3.  Realising that being a man starts with raising a child, not just the conception.
4.  Going as far as possible with their education, we don't need any more rap artists.
5.  Get out of the car when the police ask

Well I give you credit for saying what a lot of people think but know they shouldn't say.

Drug use rates among whites and blacks is roughly the same. Blacks are incarcerated at a much higher rate.

Blacks in gangs are a tiny portion of the overall population.

Public education which is the  ghetto is not of the same quality as in other neighborhoods.  Unfair housing practices made this happen.

I'm all for less white rappers.

 

[DaveP]

Well I give you credit for saying what a lot of people think but know they shouldn't say.

We have to talk about these things in order to move forward.

I hate all rap, black or white, I can't understand how the genre has lasted so long 

I recently watched the biography of Whitney Houston, I could not believe that her brothers had given her drugs while she was still a kid.  They sang in Church yet seemed to think that drugs were OK, its a whole different culture with a predictable outcome.  That is the Hood for you.  Obama luckily missed that.

DaveP

 

[mattiasNYC]

We have to talk about these things in order to move forward.

Ok, you started it, let's see if we can do that then.

I recently watched the biography of Whitney Houston, I could not believe that her brothers had given her drugs while she was still a kid.  They sang in Church yet seemed to think that drugs were OK, its a whole different culture with a predictable outcome.  That is the Hood for you.

Ok, so

a) tell us what the rates are for drug use between different demographics in the US. What are they?

b) tell us what the sentences are for the same crime for different demographics. Is it the same?

 

[Unit7]

What I saw in Obama was a black man who did not come from the hood, he was just as smart as any white guy, but he did not have the baggage of drugs and crime in his environment to hold him back.  In that, he was a great role model and I hope to see some fruit from his example in later years.

Can't see how it could be a language barrier thing and that I misunderstand, but I certainly hope so..