Donald trump. what is your take on him?

[tands]

What's the point of linking to someone's irrelevant twitter feed instead of directly to the news article? Same could be said for your last twenty twitter links. I don't see anything to be gained by knowing that some chap is SO!!! OUTRAGED!!1!1!! about this.

The point is that a given twitter account is a node of connections to news articles in general, and to other people who are same, and to the state of the current debate. Pointing to a news article just gets you a hierarchy, rather than a network.

Nice work with the caps, btw.  :-*

 

[mattiasNYC]

]God Bless America

There is no god. It's 2017.  Let's let reason guide us rather than a sky-fairy.

 

[DaveP]

It's not just about not saying something right away, it's also about what he did say when he didn't follow a script. Stop ignoring that. Every open-eared Jew and black person heard it, as did the white power movement. Seems only conservatives want to pretend it didn't happen.

If what you said were true, it seems unlikely that Trump would get on so well with  Netanyahu.  He visited Israel, is this the actions of someone who supports Jew Haters?  Trump comes from the northern US, is it likely he is a born again Black hater?

It's your right to have a particular viewpoint, I'm looking for the Logic in it.

DaveP

 

[tands]

Dave the US civil war was over 100 years ago, we don't have all the racists in the south, and all the non racists in the north. Some more Nazis got their rally shut down, anyway.

https://twitter.com/IGD_News/status/912081407702294528

 

[DaveP]

Dave the US civil war was over 100 years ago, we don't have all the racists in the south, and all the non racists in the north. Some more Nazis got their rally shut down, anyway.

I see very little progress after 100 years, just simmering resentment, its like it was last year.

DaveP

 

[tands]

Yes, we have a lot of resentment here, and quite a lot to resent. I wasn't around back then myself, but my point was that Trump being from the northern US has no bearing on whether he's a racist.  :-\

https://twitter.com/eugen_levine/status/911969362629840897

.

 

[DaveP]

I take your point, but I was saying he doesn't have the background of ignorance that passes on hate from one generation to the next.  He used to move in democratic circles.

DaveP

 

[tands]

About a half an hour or so. nsfw

https://twitter.com/puristwhiner/status/909567438978732032

 

[JohnRoberts]

I see very little progress after 100 years, just simmering resentment, its like it was last year.

DaveP

I wasn't alive 100 years ago, so cannot comment from first hand observations.

In my judgement there has been a lot of progress (i don't care for that word, but it fits.)

Speaking of 100 years ago, in the 1920's Ku Klux Klan membership exceeded 4 million people... In the 1990s  the klan was estimated to have 6,000 to 10,000 active members mostly in the deep south.

Membership in the klan reportedly increased in 2017 to some 3000. (not sure how they count them but say it was increasing since 2014.) Same report said most klan groups were in MS (4) with 3 in AL.  Once again embarrassing me to live in MS. 

-------

They say in advertising and marketing that "perception is reality" and we are now in the most partisan and divisive political climate that I can recall from my several decades paying attention. Media is actively stirring the pot for ratings and to promote personal agendas.

All hate groups should be marginalized and ignored if possible not spotlighted and turned into media stars.  The left and right hate groups draw power from each other, so need to make each other look bigger or more impactive than they are.  The KKK was on their way to becoming a post civil war historical footnote before they became energized by new media attention.

If the black community wants to be angry about something, how about the decline of two parent black households by well intentioned government assistance that makes it too easy to have children out of wedlock, and reduces that assistance if the baby maker father participates.  This creates a perverse economic incentive from all those good intentions.  In 1925 85% of kin related black households (in NYC) were two parent.  By 2011 72% of black babies were born to unmarried mothers. I will not make the simple argument to blame it all on the expansion of welfare in the 60s. The higher proportion of black males in prison  keeps many families apart (while only 12%  of the general population they make up 35% of prison population). If there is a simple answer for this, (there isn't)  more economic prosperity would help this segment a bunch. I don't think we should enforce law on a curve, while disproportionate results suggest an area that needs more attention.

Modern culture and politics draws energy from all this conflict so I do not see it subsiding in media anytime soon.

While I shouldn't have to say it, no I am not a member of the KKK, nor do I know any members among my neighbors.  In 30 years living down here I have seen KKK spray painted on the back of exactly one road sign, on a back road near me where I ride my bike. Probably some kid's prank, but not very good behavior.

JR

PS: In this politicised divisive environment it is too easy to view every news event through identity politics filters.  I don't know if this will make international news but another church shooting yesterday will invite racial stereotyping, with a dose of (legal) immigrant thrown in. Luckily more deaths were averted by an usher that confronted the gunman.  In my judgement we will never escape isolated events of violence, but we can sure make matters worse by inflaming all the political hot buttons with media reports.

 

[mattiasNYC]

GOD LESS  AMERICA....

Still no reasonable argument for the existence of a sky fairy, or tooth fairy, or Santa Claus....

PS: I never understood why people didn't pray pre-emptively to get this supposed god to stop natural disasters... always seem like the prayers come after the disasters... seem kind'a inefficient.

 

[mattiasNYC]

If what you said were true, it seems unlikely that Trump would get on so well with  Netanyahu.  He visited Israel, is this the actions of someone who supports Jew Haters?

You have to separate motives from sentiments from actions. Those are really three different things.

Netanyahu like most Israeli presidents I recall is a pragmatist and an idealist. All presidents there promote taking more land and controlling the Palestinians while doing so. The pragmatic view is to get support from the US regardless of the rhetoric on the surface. If the rhetoric coming out of the US is positive to that cause then Israel will applaud it, and if it isn't they'll paint a hyperbolic dark picture on the relationship between the US and Israel. But never in a million years with either Democrat or Republican presidents will military support, or UN support, or other support cease. It just won't. And no US president will ever put his foot down and force a viable two state solution to happen. Politically that would be borderline suicide in the US. So any POTUS has to go to Israel, has to say certain things, and has to support that state. Period.

When it comes to Trump's support of white supremacists it is exactly as it has been described by not only me here, by not only the media, but also by white supremacists themselves. The support comes from what Trump first didn't say immediately, and as I pointed out, what he then said later. It is the later statement that is so incredibly problematic.

The reason why he did so is up for debate. Is it because he actually didn't know the facts yet opened his mouth and a bunch of nonsense came out of it anyway? Possible. Not very likely. Is it because he thought he'd gain something politically, yet didn't care about the issue itself? I'd say that's not only possible but probable. Is it because he actually philosophically agrees/supports the cause of white supremacists? Also possible, but less likely.

So it's absolutely possible and logical and in my opinion more than likely that a person like him would make statements like that, and that the leader of Israel would still receive him simply because from a pragmatic standpoint it's beneficial to Israel. But should you like to see that this actually is an issue in Israel you need to look no further than Israeli media in which they've reported on mounting pressure on Benji to criticize Trump for what he said. In other words whether or not criticism is expressed is a function of political positions and power, not solely on what I presume you think was faulty or missing "logic".

Trump comes from the northern US, is it likely he is a born again Black hater?

I don't see the contradiction there. So what if he's born in the northern US, do you think we're spared racists (of any color)? We most certainly aren't. Early in the year we saw at least a couple of videos of people getting verbally assaulted on the streets of NY (!) for looking like Muslims. We've had anti-semitic symbols in several places in the city. We recently had nooses hanging from trees in Brooklyn. This place isn't immune from it.

Now, it really just boils down to how many apples you need before you have a tree, so to speak. Just how many indications do you need that someone is a racist before coming to the conclusion that they are one...? In my opinion Trump could hypothetically still not be one, but what's also important are the things he says and the things he does. When the Central Park Five were convicted he advocated the death penalty. Would he had done the same if they were white real estate owners or white Wall Street investors? Probably not, right? And years after they had sat in jail and were finally released due to new evidence, what did Trump say? He proposed they were likely still guilty despite what the courts had declared.

So, if he had his way they'd have been convicted and executed based on non-existent evidence, and he would have been ok with that. Just be honest and ask yourself if the same would have applied to white middle/upper class people.

You really have to see this in context too. New York has suffered a systematic racially profiled oppression of non-whites due to stop and frisk etc. And you have to look at the statistics of how the criminal system works in the US. It's for profit, and people of color get tougher sentences than others for the same severity crimes (i.e. all other things being equal). And on top of that you have police officers killing civilians without much retribution, as well as prosecutors acting unethically, also without getting punished. It's in that context that his words have meaning and weight, regardless of whether or not he's truly a racist or just an opportunist.

It's your right to have a particular viewpoint, I'm looking for the Logic in it.

DaveP

As well you should.

 

[DaveP]

There is no god. It's 2017.  Let's let reason guide us rather than a sky-fairy.

Well Matt, you're a clever guy, I guess you must have proof?  Ahh, it must be something to do with the 21st century, we now know everything about the universe, I forgot.

We have dark energy and dark matter all sorted?  Gravity too included?  I didn't realise that they had string theory all sorted now?

All those other dimensions...........child's play to you Matt,  There is no God, please let those billions know they are wasting their time.

DaveP

 

[DaveP]

PS: I never understood why people didn't pray pre-emptively to get this supposed god to stop natural disasters... always seem like the prayers come after the disasters... seem kind'a inefficient.

What an insight!  I didn't know God was like a forum and that He needed so many "Likes" before He did anything.

I had thought we were supposed to be smart enough not to live where one tectonic plate was grinding under another.

I thought we had to take special care with the vibration frequency of any buildings we were dumb enough to put in these places.

I thought we were supposed to make sure that corruption never got anywhere near the planning regulations or the strength of the cement mix.

So all we had to do was pray pre-emptively and do whatever the  **** we like.
Idiocracy in action, I see it now.

DaveP

 

[mattiasNYC]

Well Matt, you're a clever guy, I guess you must have proof?

Well, I suppose you have two options Dave;

1. You can believe I'm saying that there is no god literally, in all seriousness, in which case the above question is a logical follow-up. If this is the case then my honest reply to your question above is "you misunderstand me".

2. You can believe that while not ironic, my statement is facetious. Still, it probably begs a similar question. If you've paid attention to what I've said and how I've said it, then my explanation should seem reasonable. The explanation is simple;

a) I phrase it the way that I do, because people keep invoking god all the time for no good reason, and me responding the way that I do serves a purpose. The purpose is to make you people think about your perceived right to keep invoking him with the expectation that it's always ok. However, the very fact that me telling you that there is no god and you now responding to that rather than question scott what the relevance is of bringing god into this thread shows you something about it all. In other words, I'm trying to tell you that all this god-nonsense seems to be fine with believers, yet not when his existence is questioned, and that should lead you to consider that maybe those who don't believe are annoyed seeing all this god talk where it doesn't belong. If it's all about personal beliefs we can keep to ourselves, then why not do so?

b) Apart from phrasing it that way I clearly don't think god exists. god is a proposition made by theists, and the onus is on the person making the claim. For you to seriously ask me to prove that god doesn't exist is illogical and unreasonable if you can accept that my phrasing was facetious and not literal. Outside of that the truth is that if you put a gun to my head and tell me to cast a vote on whether god exists I'll vote "no", because the probability is very very low. So I'm an atheist agnostic anti-theist. I don't subscribe to theism, I don't know if god exists, I don't think it's likely that god exists, and I think theism is garbage.


---- also, thanks for calling me clever. I'm assuming you were dead-serious-super-literal about that....

  Ahh, it must be something to do with the 21st century, we now know everything about the universe, I forgot.

Fortunately pretty much nobody says we know everything about the universe. The dumb thing about this sky-fairy though is that the universe is part of nature and god is super-natural, so even if we know everything there is to know about our universe the logical extension of what god is proposed to be is that he can always exist outside of our universe, regardless of what our universe is. That's how believers get to eat their cake and still have it.

The god hypothesis is unfalsifiable. It's as convenient as it is silly.

There is no God, please let those billions know they are wasting their time.

I keep telling them, but they don't respond to reason on this issue.

 

[mattiasNYC]

What an insight!  I didn't know God was like a forum and that He needed so many "Likes" before He did anything.

Ok, so prayers do nothing then. Good to know. So speaking of enlightening people I guess you will now educate believers that they're wasting their time on praying, seeing it doesn't work?

I had thought we were supposed to be smart enough not to live where one tectonic plate was grinding under another.

Why would you make that assumption? People still believe in the Bible.

I thought we had to take special care with the vibration frequency of any buildings we were dumb enough to put in these places.

I thought we were supposed to make sure that corruption never got anywhere near the planning regulations or the strength of the cement mix.

So all we had to do was pray pre-emptively and do whatever the  **** we like.
Idiocracy in action, I see it now.

DaveP

I appreciate the added arguments against the god-hypothesis.

 

[DaveP]

Yes I do think you are clever, I was not being facetious.

I'm glad you were being facetious, otherwise it could come across as supreme arrogance.

My understanding is that the prayers that are most likely to be answered  are the ones where we ask for strength to cope with the crap that comes our way in this life.

Why would you make that assumption? People still believe in the Bible.

I see, if you believe in the Bible you are stupid enough to live in risky places.

You have come from Swedish socialist nirvana to live in a racist white country as a "brown person" where the police harass you and there is a president you detest, I guess you must believe in the Bible too.

DaveP

 

[mattiasNYC]

Yes I do think you are clever, I was not being facetious.

I'm glad you were being facetious, otherwise it could come across as supreme arrogance.

Thanks for recognizing my humility.

My understanding is that the prayers that are most likely to be answered  are the ones where we ask for strength to cope with the crap that comes our way in this life.

See, that to me sounds more likely to be a matter of changing one's perception of the world and one's approach to it, and as a result of that maybe better use opportunities that unfold before us. Sort of like a semi-self-fulfilling prophecy thing. It does however not sound like there actually is a god up there that intervenes.

I see, if you believe in the Bible you are stupid enough to live in risky places.

Well, if you can believe in the biggest claim ever made which not only hasn't been proven to be true but also has had many of its "sub-set beliefs" proven wrong then I don't really see how one could be surprised that people take a risk living where there are earthquakes and hurricanes etc.

And we're of course ignoring every child born there and who subsequently lacks the rights or ability to move.

You have come from Swedish socialist nirvana to live in a racist white country as a "brown person" where the police harass you and there is a president you detest, I guess you must believe in the Bible too.

Yes.

[x] Sweden is socialist
[x] Socialism is nirvana
[x] The US is a racist white country
[x] The police harass me personally

etc.

I think you got the facts wrong but the conclusion plausible. So at least we're following the same logical progression, which is, uhm, progress... thought I understand that must be annoying to a conservative (as opposed to a progressive).....

 

[tands]

Ignoring the racial subtext.

https://twitter.com/HuizarTony/status/893614187188027392

 

[mattiasNYC]

You first

Cause and effect. Yes.

Effect and cause. No.

 

[mattiasNYC]

Ignoring the racial subtext.

https://twitter.com/HuizarTony/status/893614187188027392

I have no idea if the image is legit, but the history of not only that region but central America and elsewhere gives us very good reason to pause when evaluating crises in other countries.