Donald trump. what is your take on him?

[emrr]

"When we treat politics like sport or war, then we treat ourselves as fans or soldiers, cheering or booing or following orders," she says.
"When we treat politics like that, then those who hold differing views from us are not wrong, they are evil. They are not mistaken, they are enemies."

- Jennifer Mercieca, Historian of political rhetoric

So what is our take to be, to evolve into, when he appoints Bannon, with all his negative pot-stirring (at very least, giving the largest benefit of doubt)?

Several first hand stories of racial harassment here locally as a result of all this incitement.  Klansmen in robes celebrating in broad daylight on main city streets.  Unthinkable.  A friend's son plays high school soccer, they were at an away game in Charlotte NC (large city) and their African-American center forward was taunted with racial slurs the entire game, students and parents, umpires refused to shut it down.  Again, unimaginable and unthinkable, and we can point a clear finger at where this has come from. 

 

[DaveP]

I listened to his lecture.  To answer the comment he gave a detailed history lesson to establish his credentials.

The argument was basically whether the Russian interpretation of Marxism was  true socialism or not.  So you are saying that because it wasn't, then the criticism cannot stand?

My point is that because of flawed human nature, any system that seeks total control of its citizens lives will descend into authoritarianism.  e.g. Stalin's Russia, North Korea, ISIS, absolute kings and rulers etc.etc.

Capitalism works for a select few but it is not proof against abuse of power either.  It's like a horse that needs reins to bring it under the control , otherwise  ordinary people get trampled under foot.

DaveP

 

[DaveP]

Several first hand stories of racial harassment here locally as a result of all this incitement.  Klansmen in robes celebrating in broad daylight on main city streets.  Unthinkable.  A friend's son plays high school soccer, they were at an away game in Charlotte NC (large city) and their African-American center forward was taunted with racial slurs the entire game, students and parents, umpires refused to shut it down.  Again, unimaginable and unthinkable, and we can point a clear finger at where this has come from.

This self same thing happened on a smaller scale in the UK after the Brexit vote.  The populist vote is taken as a green light to vent all the pent up venom of the underclass.  I expect it to die down after some rowing back once he takes office.

DaveP

 

[Andy Peters]

I worry that some ( "starve the beast") are unconcerned with insolvency, however, as a bankrupt country would sell off assets (Fed land, etc).

Selling off Federal land for private use is definitely a goal for many Republicans, especially those who represent western states.

 

[pucho812]

Selling off Federal land for private use is definitely a goal for many Republicans, especially those who represent western states.

Then why was reid trying to broker the land deal in Nevada to do the solar farm for the Chinese? I don't think it is strictly a gop issue there. Greed knows no bounds and is not adherent to any one party.

 

[dmp]

Pucho,
I had never heard about Reid trying to broker a land deal in Nevada for a Chinese solar farm.  So I researched "reid Chinese solar farm"

First hit: http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/apr/24/blog-posting/did-sen-harry-reid-drive-standoff-bundy-ranch-pers/
The snopes article declaring the story as FALSE:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/nevada.asp

Reading through the whole thing, the only substance to the story was that the Chinese company was going to buy county owned land (NOT FEDERAL LAND) at a good price if they could meet aggressive targets for development in the area - which, they could not.. The original deal has been dead for 3 yrs, while it seems to have taken on a life of its own in Republican propaganda.
I saw some other stories talking about vague sinister plans by Reid and BLM to take Federal land from the Bundy's to make a national monument, or other nefarious plans for solar energy farms, but nothing with substance that I could find. Outlets like Breitbutt, etc  putting out stories.

Can you give me some clue why you posted that as fact? Do you have any source that makes the story believable? 

 

[living sounds]

The lobbyists on K-Street and the banksters on Wall Street are throwing partys right now. Trump just told millionaires in a NY restaurant that he's going to lower their taxes. And you will have to pay for that.

I really hope there are enough people who see through the scapegoating and work and vote in their economic interests . If that happens and Trump has not dismantled the democratic system sufficiently (all the voter suppression efforts should make it clear that he will have plenty of help) the eventual reckoning may bring in the next liberal era long overdue. 

This time they are set up formidably to expose neo-liberal economics, intrusive conservative social policies and racist agendas for what they are and finish them once and for all.

And if not, simply inserting this elections numbers with 2020 demographics results in a Democratic victory. So in the long run, if he doesn't destroy the planet, time is on our side.

But for now, brace yourselves everybody. Be vigilant. Support the ACLU and similar organisations. There's a tough ride ahead.

 

[living sounds]

Reportedly David Patreous is in the running for secretary of state.  The word - again - is hypocracy.  And also irony. Can't make this stuff up...

 

[mattiasNYC]

I listened to his lecture.  To answer the comment he gave a detailed history lesson to establish his credentials.

The argument was basically whether the Russian interpretation of Marxism was  true socialism or not.  So you are saying that because it wasn't, then the criticism cannot stand?

You may be able to criticize Marxism or Socialism for a lot of reasons, but I agree with Chomsky that what happened in Russia under Lenin and certainly by the time of Stalin was by no means Marxism or Socialism. So you can't argue that those two are flawed or bad because of something that has little to do with it. It's like saying that the recipe for Swedish Meatballs is deeply flawed because the fermented herring in it doesn't work with the milk chocolate, also in the meatballs.... except of course neither are a part of the recipe. See what I mean? You can still say that Swedish Meatballs are overrated, unhealthy or not square enough (and you'd be wrong on all counts), but those are different arguments.

And I don't think Chomsky responded the way he did to prove himself. If you've read his books and heard his talks or debates you'd know that that's how he builds an argument in general. And he tends to be right I think.

My point is that because of flawed human nature, any system that seeks total control of its citizens lives will descend into authoritarianism.  e.g. Stalin's Russia, North Korea, ISIS, absolute kings and rulers etc.etc.

But that's certainly a bit of a tautology though in that "total control" really is what authoritarianism is, no?

Nevertheless I do think it's an interesting issue worth discussing. In my opinion the important thing is identifying the structures that make up respective systems in order to then understand just what principles end up exerting control over individuals. What socialists have argued for example is that the Capitalist system simply uses a different mean for exerting control over the individual. So while it's worth recognizing what bad versions of Communism does to a society, the same investigation can be applied to Capitalism (or any other "ism" or whatever).

Synchronicity?... I actually thought about monarchies just the other day, when news started trickling out about Trump employing relatives in positions of power, both in the political and capitalist sphere. It's beginning to smell real foul to me. But then again, especially in the US the people have had a tendency to elect the de facto royalty in the hopes that the latter actually represents them politically. Just why people would make that assumption I have no idea. I suppose US propaganda works marvelously.

Capitalism works for a select few but it is not proof against abuse of power either.  It's like a horse that needs reins to bring it under the control , otherwise  ordinary people get trampled under foot.

DaveP

Sure.

 

[mattiasNYC]

Pucho,
I had never heard about Reid trying to broker a land deal in Nevada for a Chinese solar farm.  So I researched "reid Chinese solar farm"

First hit: http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/apr/24/blog-posting/did-sen-harry-reid-drive-standoff-bundy-ranch-pers/
The snopes article declaring the story as FALSE:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/nevada.asp

Reading through the whole thing, the only substance to the story was that the Chinese company was going to buy county owned land (NOT FEDERAL LAND) at a good price if they could meet aggressive targets for development in the area - which, they could not.. The original deal has been dead for 3 yrs, while it seems to have taken on a life of its own in Republican propaganda.
I saw some other stories talking about vague sinister plans by Reid and BLM to take Federal land from the Bundy's to make a national monument, or other nefarious plans for solar energy farms, but nothing with substance that I could find. Outlets like Breitbutt, etc  putting out stories.

Can you give me some clue why you posted that as fact? Do you have any source that makes the story believable?

A painfully obvious pattern is painfully obvious. I'm in pain.

 

[pucho812]

Pucho,
I had never heard about Reid trying to broker a land deal in Nevada for a Chinese solar farm.  So I researched "reid Chinese solar farm"

First hit: http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/apr/24/blog-posting/did-sen-harry-reid-drive-standoff-bundy-ranch-pers/
The snopes article declaring the story as FALSE:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/nevada.asp

Reading through the whole thing, the only substance to the story was that the Chinese company was going to buy county owned land (NOT FEDERAL LAND) at a good price if they could meet aggressive targets for development in the area - which, they could not.. The original deal has been dead for 3 yrs, while it seems to have taken on a life of its own in Republican propaganda.
I saw some other stories talking about vague sinister plans by Reid and BLM to take Federal land from the Bundy's to make a national monument, or other nefarious plans for solar energy farms, but nothing with substance that I could find. Outlets like Breitbutt, etc  putting out stories.

Can you give me some clue why you posted that as fact? Do you have any source that makes the story believable?

For starters I wouldn't be using snoops as a crux as to counter an argument. They have been known to be wrong  and all accounts say they are funded by a heavy left money source.  but regardless of funding they have been known to be wrong on many occasions so I can't trust them.

As for the statement about reid,
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-reid-solar-idUSBRE87U06D20120831

 

[mattiasNYC]

For starters I wouldn't be using snoops as a crux as to counter an argument. They have been known to be wrong  and all accounts say they are funded by a heavy left money source.  but regardless of funding they have been known to be wrong on many occasions so I can't trust them.

As for the statement about reid,
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-reid-solar-idUSBRE87U06D20120831

"His son, a lawyer with a prominent Las Vegas firm that is representing ENN, helped it locate a 9,000-acre (3,600-hectare) desert site that it is buying well below appraised value from Clark County, where Rory Reid formerly chaired the county commission."

Isn't that what DMP said? Isn't that what Snopes said?

 

[CJ]

That Time Keith Richards Nearly Stabbed Donald Trump


As if you needed another reason to love Keith Richards (considering he's a really nice dude who once nearly burned down the Playboy Mansion), the Rolling Stones guitarist hated Soiled Carpet Sample Donald Trump way before it was cool. Stones tour manager Michael Cohl recently told this pretty awesome story at a Pollstar event.

It was 1989, and the Rolling Stones were looking to wrap up their Steel Wheels tour with a big show broadcast on pay-per-view. Unfortunately, the only place they could find was Atlantic City at Donald Trump's Plaza Hotel and Casino. As Cohl tells it:

I opened my big mouth in the meeting with The Rolling Stones where they go, "This is all great, but we're not going to be affiliated with Donald Trump. At all. Screw you." And I go, "I will control Donald Trump! Don't you worry!"

They ended up signing the contract anyway. And so, the biggest rock band on the planet was pitted against the biggest ego on the planet. So, as the story goes, the Stones wanted to do an interview at a specific time before the show, but when they get to the pressroom, the Orange One is giving a press conference:

I give him the [come here gesture]. "Come on, Donald, what are you doing? A) You promised us you wouldn't even be here and, B) you promised you would never do this." He says, "But they begged me to go up, Michael! They begged me to go up!" I say, "Stop it. Stop it. This could be crazy. Do what you said you would. Don't make a liar of yourself."

After what sounds like a completely insufferable argument, Cohl goes and finds the band in the dressing room, where they are rightfully pissed that Trump is trying to steal the show from, again, the biggest rock band on the planet:

They call me back, at which point Keith pulls out his knife and slams it on the table and says, "What the hell do I have you for? Do I have to go over there and fire him myself? One of us is leaving the building – either him, or us." I said, "No. I'll go do it. Don't you worry."

Moral of the story. Donald Trump is ~literally~ the worst. But you already knew that. And Keith Richards is completely awesome. But you already knew that, too.

 

[Phrazemaster]

I'm fairly certain we've passed the point of no return on the national debt. This is the calm before the storm; we're still coasting on perceived "ok-ness" and the lies they spew. But make no mistake - we will likely never repay this debt, which will consume us. Every dollar is a Federal Reserve Note, which is debt. Every dollar the government "prints" (it doesn't), it buys at face value from the Fed, and has to repay with interest. But the Fed prints the money. That means we can never, ever, in a zillion years, repay this debt - every dollar we could use is owed back with interest.

It's like a bunch of little kids got together on a playground and made up rules that would make sure they won at all cost. The kids are the bankers, and we the losers.

What's truly terrifying is the insane amount of new money that has been printed in the last few years. Since 2008 our money supply has more than doubled - I think quadrupled but I can't remember the number atm. We are headed the way of the Germans with their Marks that devalued - in fact every country that has ever used Fiat currency has at some point lost control of it and had runaway interest.

All of this is far, far more terrifying and unstoppable than DT or HC in the WH.

 

[micaddict]

Yup.

And an interesting question is to whom you/we are in debt.
You can google that and you'll find some nice charts.
But they don't tell the whole story.

 

[Banzai]

Yup.

And an interesting question is to whom you/we are in debt.
You can google that and you'll find some nice charts.
But they don't tell the whole story.

More interestingly, who's this Dutch guy, and what's his theory?

 

[micaddict]

Do you mean who's the Dutch scientist (the guy I mentioned earlier) and what's his theory?
That one was about gravity:
http://nltimes.nl/2016/11/08/dutch-scientist-publishes-new-theory-gravity
http://www.uva.nl/en/news-events/news/uva-news/content/press-releases/2016/11/new-theory-of-gravity-might-explain-dark-matter.html

 

[mattiasNYC]

It's like a bunch of little kids got together on a playground and made up rules that would make sure they won at all cost. The kids are the bankers, and we the losers.

Yep, except they (rule-makers) are all adults and are doing what they do fully knowing the outcome of it. Consolidation of wealth is the name of the game. It typically works wonderfully well until it doesn't, and then the collapse doesn't limit itself to a monetary one but also heads rolling, in some cases quite literally. The psychopaths at the top don't really care though, and they think they're immune to any potential blowback.

All of this is far, far more terrifying and unstoppable than DT or HC in the WH.

Well, I'd say they're part of the problem however.

 

[mattiasNYC]

Do you mean who's the Dutch scientist (the guy I mentioned earlier) and what's his theory?
That one was about gravity:
http://nltimes.nl/2016/11/08/dutch-scientist-publishes-new-theory-gravity
http://www.uva.nl/en/news-events/news/uva-news/content/press-releases/2016/11/new-theory-of-gravity-might-explain-dark-matter.html

hmmmm........

 

[Banzai]

Do you mean who's the Dutch scientist (the guy I mentioned earlier) and what's his theory?

That's the one, thanks