micaddict
Well-known member
mattiasNYC said:
Mattias, that's the shortest post I've seen from you in a while.
Henk
Donald trump. what is your take on him?
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Mattias, that's the shortest post I've seen from you in a while.
Henk
M
mattiasNYC
Guest
thx
micaddict
Well-known member
yw
M
mattiasNYC
Guest
)
Phrazemaster
Well-known member
Yes, you hit it exactly! Seriously, psychopaths! Soulless ghouls who would just as soon kill you or let you die. It's been hard to wrap my mind around it, but if it walks like a duck, absconds with our wealth like a duck...mattiasNYC said:
micaddict
Well-known member
mattiasNYC said:
OK, you win.
And good to see you smile, bro'.
Phrazemaster
Well-known member
That is beyond reprehensible; that is disgusting as f**k. I'm so sorry.emrr said:
Yet to say you can point a clear finger to where it came from? I'm sorry, but it came from inside the people that did it! Unfortunately we have these monsters parading around as normal citizens, until they show their true colors. Maybe it's a good thing - it forces us to wake up to who our neighbors really are, and perhaps there's a way to clean house?
Phrazemaster
Well-known member
Very well stated. Another take on that is, you can't legislate fairness. No laws in the world are immune to abuse, and if those at the top want to get around the laws or twist them, they will. Take our US constitution; as good as it is, it's been assaulted almost since its inception by many that have wanted it to mean other things. And no document or set of laws could possible have the prescience to be able to cover every future contingency.DaveP said:
But you hit it on the head - if people want to abuse power, they will, period, the laws be damned.
Phrazemaster
Well-known member
You guys are stinkin' hilarious; I love this place!micaddict said:Mattias, that's the shortest post I've seen from you in a while.
Henk
Phrazemaster said:
No-one's born with hatred inside them. Everyone's indoctrinated, and the next 8-years is going to create an entire generation of xenophobic US children who hate muslims and mexicans, and whoever else it's been deemed ok to openly hate on.
Nevermind herd mentality, with perfectly normal people turning into racists. And 'grabbing women by the p*ssy'? That's okay too!
Unfortunately, this one can't be rolled back anymore. It's done.
Phrazemaster
Well-known member
Well...heh...if you believe the stories from people who have had heart transplants, who's personality changed after they had the heart transplant to match more like their donor, then maybe not so much.Banzai said:
Some call it "cellular" memory. Bunk? Maybe but...the stories of people suddenly craving certain foods they never ate or liked before, come to find out they were the favorite foods of their donors, is fairly compelling.
So is hate just learned, or perhaps a little bit inherited? Dunno.
M
mattiasNYC
Guest
(You can skip directly to the link if you're sick of my ramblings)
I think some 'preferences' or 'taste' can be explained by a person's biology. I have a very hard time believing someone's tastes changes due to a heart change (as opposed to a change of heart) though. It sounds a lot like nonsense to me. But at any rate, I think neither is necessarily what we're talking about.
Even if we take some inherited inclination towards xenophobia, probably due to our species need for competition to survive when food was scarce thousands of years ago, we still do have a brain. Since it's pattern-based I'm putting my bet on xenophobia being mostly learned, or taught rather. I really don't think two 1-year olds will pay attention to skin color when in the sandbox. Or 3-year olds. It'll take some time and indoctrination before kids start treating each other differently due to skin color. And I'm talking about skin color because it's the most readily available (and close to meaningless) marker to segregate ourselves.
As far as xenophobia or hatred that's based on other things I would argue that things get a bit more complex, but it's still worth noting what's what and that some things don't necessarily exclude others. So if we take people who hate Muslims for example there's something to be said for the right to dislike an ideology and the person buying said ideology. Religious belief is like political belief in the sense that we have a choice to pick one over the other (barring involuntary indoctrination, which happens). So, if we can criticize, deride and ridicule political opinions (such as neo-nazi ones for example) then surely that applies to religious beliefs. I certainly don't believe "we have to respect the beliefs of others". I think that's nonsense. Bad belief is bad belief. We don't have to respect it (as opposed to the right to have said bad belief).
But here's the interesting thing: Sometimes the crowd that complains about things being overly PC are the ones who conflate things. The notion that one is just against a subset, like not all brown people, and not all Arabs, and not all Muslims, but just terrorists, is used as an excuse for them venting. Our criticism of what they say is just us being PC, because they're just critical of terrorists, nobody else. But what happens when they're let loose? What happens when they feel they've won and they can finally speak their mind freely? There's a tendency for them to then move "backwards" from just terrorists, to just Muslims, to just Arabs and finally a much more loose "them" of which people like me are a part.
Now, I've complained about Trump's campaign risking the normalization of hatred, and more specifically xenophobia, racism, Islamophobia and misogyny, and I've argued that we'll likely see an increase in hate crimes. So, here's something not far from where I live in Queens, NY, one of the most diverse areas on the planet:
https://www.facebook.com/KarimFanPage/videos/10153933226601135/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED
Speaks for itself I think.
I think some 'preferences' or 'taste' can be explained by a person's biology. I have a very hard time believing someone's tastes changes due to a heart change (as opposed to a change of heart) though. It sounds a lot like nonsense to me. But at any rate, I think neither is necessarily what we're talking about.
Even if we take some inherited inclination towards xenophobia, probably due to our species need for competition to survive when food was scarce thousands of years ago, we still do have a brain. Since it's pattern-based I'm putting my bet on xenophobia being mostly learned, or taught rather. I really don't think two 1-year olds will pay attention to skin color when in the sandbox. Or 3-year olds. It'll take some time and indoctrination before kids start treating each other differently due to skin color. And I'm talking about skin color because it's the most readily available (and close to meaningless) marker to segregate ourselves.
As far as xenophobia or hatred that's based on other things I would argue that things get a bit more complex, but it's still worth noting what's what and that some things don't necessarily exclude others. So if we take people who hate Muslims for example there's something to be said for the right to dislike an ideology and the person buying said ideology. Religious belief is like political belief in the sense that we have a choice to pick one over the other (barring involuntary indoctrination, which happens). So, if we can criticize, deride and ridicule political opinions (such as neo-nazi ones for example) then surely that applies to religious beliefs. I certainly don't believe "we have to respect the beliefs of others". I think that's nonsense. Bad belief is bad belief. We don't have to respect it (as opposed to the right to have said bad belief).
But here's the interesting thing: Sometimes the crowd that complains about things being overly PC are the ones who conflate things. The notion that one is just against a subset, like not all brown people, and not all Arabs, and not all Muslims, but just terrorists, is used as an excuse for them venting. Our criticism of what they say is just us being PC, because they're just critical of terrorists, nobody else. But what happens when they're let loose? What happens when they feel they've won and they can finally speak their mind freely? There's a tendency for them to then move "backwards" from just terrorists, to just Muslims, to just Arabs and finally a much more loose "them" of which people like me are a part.
Now, I've complained about Trump's campaign risking the normalization of hatred, and more specifically xenophobia, racism, Islamophobia and misogyny, and I've argued that we'll likely see an increase in hate crimes. So, here's something not far from where I live in Queens, NY, one of the most diverse areas on the planet:
https://www.facebook.com/KarimFanPage/videos/10153933226601135/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED
Speaks for itself I think.
Phrazemaster
Well-known member
Well, it might "sound like a lot of nonsense" to you, but does everything that happens on this planet have to make sense to you? Sure doesn't to me.'
You can dismiss peoples' experiences, but that doesn't make them invalid. Nor does it preclude a scientific explanation which may or may not have been formulated. Nor does it mean it isn't true, just because it may not make sense to you.
In this case, it's a well-known phenomenon not easily explained by anything other than some kind of cellular memory passed through genetics.
Doesn't "make sense" to me either, but then again, neither does a lot of what happens that we do accept as "fact."
I loved your clever quip about a "heart change" vs a "change of heart." Witty.
And to your main point - that likely this kind of behavior is learned - I do actually agree with you.
You can dismiss peoples' experiences, but that doesn't make them invalid. Nor does it preclude a scientific explanation which may or may not have been formulated. Nor does it mean it isn't true, just because it may not make sense to you.
In this case, it's a well-known phenomenon not easily explained by anything other than some kind of cellular memory passed through genetics.
Doesn't "make sense" to me either, but then again, neither does a lot of what happens that we do accept as "fact."
I loved your clever quip about a "heart change" vs a "change of heart." Witty.
And to your main point - that likely this kind of behavior is learned - I do actually agree with you.
dmp
Well-known member
Trump announced Jeff Sessions for Attorney General - the head of the US justice dept.
This is a man who was rejected by the Senate for a federal judgeship because of racist statements and persecution of civil rights activists. I suggest reading this guys bio. He certainly seems like a poor choice for the justice dept to me - unless the administration wants to promote an agenda hostile to civil rights.
Phrazemaster
Well-known member
Tell that to the people inciting all the hate. Our blood all runs red.Banzai said:
Let's light the torches...
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I think these days even adolf would laugh seeing that shit.
Human race sucks.
Over 70 years after processing "others" into soap, idiots still don't get that they are only idiots.
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I think these days even adolf would laugh seeing that shit.
Human race sucks.
Over 70 years after processing "others" into soap, idiots still don't get that they are only idiots.
M
mattiasNYC
Guest
Unfortunately I've seen at least three-four more reports on swastikas popping up after the election. That in conjunction with reports of abuse of Muslims makes me feel there is something to this. There's the more broad hatred of Muslims and middle-easterners (minus Israeli Jews), and in addition to that the more straight up white-power anti-black/anti-semitic strain.
What's unfortunate however is that in the case of religion the belief gets mingled with the various ethnicites that tend to have specific faiths. So whatever one may feel about Islam or Judaism, right or wrong, one can't assume that just because a person is from the mid-east they belong to any particular faith etc.
And on top of that suck-salad there's the issue of some people of some minorities not drawing the necessary lessons from being a discriminated minority. I went up to the local Dunkin Donuts the other day and a guy was talking aggressively to another guy. They were about 10 feet apart. From the conversation I got that the guy yelling was basically accusing the other guy of having looked at him the wrong way. He ended it by cursing and using the f___ot word. Me and the supposedly gay guy just shook our heads. That homophobe was clearly mid-eastern, so clearly he'd learned nothing from what he'd seen recently. I've heard the same from some Hispanics and some black Americans. Zero. Lesson. Learned.
But anyway, Trump's recent appointments is sure to put a lid on this.... right?.... RIGHT?....
What's unfortunate however is that in the case of religion the belief gets mingled with the various ethnicites that tend to have specific faiths. So whatever one may feel about Islam or Judaism, right or wrong, one can't assume that just because a person is from the mid-east they belong to any particular faith etc.
And on top of that suck-salad there's the issue of some people of some minorities not drawing the necessary lessons from being a discriminated minority. I went up to the local Dunkin Donuts the other day and a guy was talking aggressively to another guy. They were about 10 feet apart. From the conversation I got that the guy yelling was basically accusing the other guy of having looked at him the wrong way. He ended it by cursing and using the f___ot word. Me and the supposedly gay guy just shook our heads. That homophobe was clearly mid-eastern, so clearly he'd learned nothing from what he'd seen recently. I've heard the same from some Hispanics and some black Americans. Zero. Lesson. Learned.
But anyway, Trump's recent appointments is sure to put a lid on this.... right?.... RIGHT?....
Phrazemaster
Well-known member
Right.mattiasNYC said:
