Donald trump. what is your take on him?

[DaveP]

Apparently, women everywhere have been losing their pussies because of the Donald.

This is where they reclaim them and find empowerment.



I had to Google this info, old guys like me have to keep up with the latest Millennial trends. :

DaveP

 

[nielsk]

If every illegal immigrant was deported today, the grocery stores would be empty in a week.
There is no shortage of jobs in this country, there is a shortage of jobs citizens in a developed culture want to do.
The system is FUBAR, but a reasonable approach is most likely to improve things, like one that issues guest worker permits quickly and for free for agriculture, livestock processing, and other jobs citizens do not want to do, while not punishing people who are attempting to visit and immigrate legally with inane bureaucracy and requirements.
A compassionate approach can deal with not tolerating illegal immigration, while also not supporting boondoggle plans like what happened in Arizona, where a cabal of private prison companies and politicians conspired to make a bunch of $ off imprisoning women and children, and forcing strapped police departments to do their dirty work.

There is already all the "wall" built that can be built without extreme obstacles,  and what is there is already causing extreme damage to migratory wildlife, while accomplishing very little to stem any flow of illegal immigrants.

 

[dmp]

I wonder how many current Republican's are familiar with the Hawley–Smoot Tariff and the after effects? Or do they have their own "alternative facts" about it?
Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it.

Summary from google:
President Hoover signed the now-infamous Smoot-Hawley tariff bill, which substantially raised U.S. tariffs on some 890 products. Other countries retaliated and world trade shrank enormously; by the end of 1934 world trade had plummeted some 66 percent from the 1929 level.

And shouldn't America just erase that poem on the Statue of Liberty at this point?

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..."

 

[JohnRoberts]

I wonder how many current Republican's are familiar with the Hawley–Smoot Tariff and the after effects? Or do they have their own "alternative facts" about it?

I suspect most are pretty well informed. I worry that most voters are more inclined to look at this very narrowly in their perceived self interest.

Tariffs will raise prices for far more people than are helped.

If you go back further in history our government used to finance itself by collecting tariffs on imports (tariff act of 1789).

Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it.

Yup, always has been true. I am pretty impressed with the caliber of Trump's cabinet appointments and expect some of them  could lecture us on trade. I suspect Rex Tillerson understands world trade better than you or I.

Summary from google:
President Hoover signed the now-infamous Smoot-Hawley tariff bill, which substantially raised U.S. tariffs on some 890 products. Other countries retaliated and world trade shrank enormously; by the end of 1934 world trade had plummeted some 66 percent from the 1929 level.

we saw retaliatory trade sanctions threatened just last year, and probably this year too. Trump may be a reality TV star blowhard, but he isn't an idiot (I hope). Lets see what actually happens.

It's a little amusing to talk about "new" trade wars when we have been in a different kind of trade war for years already. Countries try to manipulate their currency exchange rates for export trade advantage the old "beggar thy neighbor" currency play.

And shouldn't America just erase that poem on the Statue of Liberty at this point?

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..."

The Immigration and Naturalization Act (INA), the body of law governing current immigration policy, provides for an annual worldwide limit of 675,000 permanent immigrants, with certain exceptions for close family members. Lawful permanent residency allows a foreign national to work and live lawfully and permanently in the United States. Lawful permanent residents (LPRs) are eligible to apply for nearly all jobs (i.e., jobs not legitimately restricted to U.S. citizens) and can remain in the country even if they are unemployed. Each year the United States also admits noncitizens on a temporary basis. Annually, Congress and the President determine a separate number for refugee admissions.

Immigration to the United States is based upon the following principles: the reunification of families, admitting immigrants with skills that are valuable to the U.S. economy, protecting refugees, and promoting diversity.
=====
Legal immigration is a good thing... but we are a nation of laws and cutting ahead in line is not the correct path to becoming a US citizen. Foreign nationals have no right to come here, citizenship is a gift we grant some of them, usually those in need or those that will make us better. We are a nation of immigrants and that has not changed. 

JR

 

[dmp]

I suspect Rex Tillerson understands world trade better than you or I.

Yeah, but for whose benefit? That is what i expect he understands really well.

Legal immigration is a good thing... but we are a nation of laws

Agreed, and enforcement should start at employment. Business regulation should make it so only legal residents are employed with punitive punishments of the businesses if they violate the law. 
Current immigration policy is geared around the interests of business owners. High tech visas(OPT, H1B)  should not be sponsored/owned by companies - and illegal immigration should not be driven by menial labor jobs. We should be welcoming high tech people with open arms.
The labor market follows supply and demand. There aren't jobs that legal American's wouldn't do, they just won't do them for the same suppressed wage. Let business pay the market wage for jobs. If that means it costs more to get your lawn manicured, your bathroom cleaned, or your dishes washed, so be it. That being said we should show compassion for people already here as the system is changed.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Yeah, but for whose benefit? That is what i expect he understands really well.

As secretary of state he will be representing us.

Agreed, and enforcement should start at employment. Business regulation should make it so only legal residents are employed with punitive punishments of the businesses if they violate the law. 

we also have a long tradition of guest workers for some industries...

I believe it is already against the law, since the last time we "reformed immigration", but congress failed to fund enforcement. There are factions from both political parties that do not want to actually resolve this.

Current immigration policy is geared around the interests of business owners. High tech visas(OPT, H1B)  should not be sponsored/owned by companies - and illegal immigration should not be driven by menial labor jobs. We should be welcoming high tech people with open arms.
The labor market follows supply and demand. There aren't jobs that legal American's wouldn't do, they just won't do them for the same suppressed wage. Let business pay the market wage for jobs. If that means it costs more to get your lawn manicured, your bathroom cleaned, or your dishes washed, so be it. That being said we should show compassion for people already here as the system is changed.

I already shared this but some jobs cannot support high enough wages to draw many American workers. If a farmers crop is uneconomic to grow and sell while paying higher wages, they will invest in automation to replace the uneconomic labor or just stop farming. This is already happening in the fast food industry where high minimum wages in some localities could make the big macs too expensive. So now you order with a smart phone or at a kiosk instead of talking to a human.

In an ideal world you could just raise everything and let everybody re-adjust, but the demand for CA vegetables, or big Macs is not inelastic. If the price increases too much the demand goes down.  I seem to recall some issues with logging companies in Me where they couldn't get US workers at profitable wage rates and ended up using Canadian workers who were willing to work for those lower wage rates, or going out of business. 

I am not really disagreeing with you, I just didn't like your specific examples. I am not opposed to more automation, it is like the tide that we can't stop. The future will be bad for menial laborers. Don't let your kids grow up to be truck drivers.

JR

 

[abbey road d enfer]

while accomplishing very little to stem any flow of illegal immigrants.

It is of common knowledge that politicians do not know history or do not have the capacity of learning lessons from the past. Trump does nor make exception to this rule.
The  Great Wall, the Hadrian wall and the Ligne Maginot failed flamboyantly to repel invaders.
The Mexican wall is going to cost a fortune and benefit no one except the construction companies.
Bush sheared Americans with his connections to the military, Trump will with his connections to real-estate and construction.

 

[JohnRoberts]

It is of common knowledge that politicians do not know history or do not have the capacity of learning lessons from the past. Trump does nor make exception to this rule.
The  Great Wall, the Hadrian wall and the Ligne Maginot failed flamboyantly to repel invaders.
The Mexican wall is going to cost a fortune and benefit no one except the construction companies.
Bush sheared Americans with his connections to the military, Trump will with his connections to real-estate and construction.

Predictions about the future are difficult to do with any accuracy.

I wonder if Trump is reading my mind..? He just cancelled $5M in ACA advertising. (I have mentioned in passing our previous POTUS' affection for PR efforts). I was seeing these ads during NBA games and a little irritated by the money that could be better used for actual healthcare. 

Sen Rand Paul has already announced his bill to replace ACA, and argues for coincident repeal and replace so insured are not left without coverage. I expect more open public hearings and discussion (debate)  this time around. So it is far from a done deal, but forward movement (depending on your perspective).

JR

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Predictions about the future are difficult to do with any accuracy.

I wonder if Trump is reading my mind..? He just cancelled $5M in ACA advertising. (I have mentioned in passing our previous POTUS' affection for PR efforts). I was seeing these ads during NBA games and a little irritated by the money that could be better used for actual healthcare. 

Sen Rand Paul has already announced his bill to replace ACA, and argues for coincident repeal and replace so insured are not left without coverage. I expect more open public hearings and discussion (debate)  this time around. So it is far from a done deal, but forward movement (depending on your perspective).

JR

ACA? Tried to google it, but there's so many hits, I don't know which one...

 

[DaveP]

I think he means Obama care

DaveP

 

[JohnRoberts]

ACA? Tried to google it, but there's so many hits, I don't know which one...

"Obamacare"..... Several years ago I was criticized on this forum for calling it Obamacare, saying that was somehow pejorative. I got into the habit of calling it ACA ever since. "Affordable Care Act"  is one of those typical Washington DC names for legislation that are wistfully optimistic.

I prefer to avoid silly arguments, in favor of discussing the real stuff.

JR 

 

[nielsk]

It will be some time before robots can do the produce harvesting and food processing that humans can do because of their natural capabilities. It will happen, but will require cloning and fabrication of foodstuffs, current plant and animal farming has had more mechanization applied to it than almost any other industry, and it has it's  limits.
That being said, because of Nixon's implementation of the agribusiness model, we are so used to artificially low food prices that it will rock the economy in a severe way to change the price structure to a realistic one without a long, slow process.
The current situation requiring low wage migrant workers  can not be changed by just snapping the fingers...

 

[JohnRoberts]

It will be some time before robots can do the produce harvesting and food processing that humans can do because of their natural capabilities. It will happen, but will require cloning and fabrication of foodstuffs, current plant and animal farming has had more mechanization applied to it than almost any other industry, and it has it's  limits.

Yes, mechanization has been effective as a labor multiplier for all farmers to be far more productive than the old days. Even a small tractor spanks 10 mules, and this continues today with massive farm machines, drones, GPS steering to optimize planting, etc. Likewise scientists have been altering crops to make them more compatible with machine harvesting.

Back in 2013 or 2014 the administration dropped the ball and was too late issuing guest worker permits, harming a number of farmers dependent on that labor to bring in their crops. This has motivated some of those affected to become more aggressive about embracing automation.

That being said, because of Nixon's implementation of the agribusiness model, we are so used to artificially low food prices that it will rock the economy in a severe way to change the price structure to a realistic one without a long, slow process.
The current situation requiring low wage migrant workers  can not be changed by just snapping the fingers...

Low prices are a benefit to the public. A lot of the drama about "made in China", or in the future made in Viet Nam or made in Africa, since China labor is getting more expensive these days, ignores this benefit.  This is not zero sum as poor workers get raised up and get to improve their lives too with the new income they earn. If we mandate too high prices for US farm work, we will just end up importing more food from nations that don't have such structural costs built in. 

Regarding farm workers those of us old enough will remember the protests of Ceasar Chavez (a good Chavez) who used collective bargaining to reduce abuses and improve the wages and working conditions for American (guest) farm workers back in the 60s.  Some may remember his Ca grape boycott.

People probably don't even think twice about how they can buy fresh fruit and fresh vegetables at the store relatively inexpensively, now in the dead of winter (hint think globalization).

Trade is good....

JR

 

[hodad]

I told you guys, this spit was gonna get real in a hurry.  Racist Bannon has wasted no time setting his plans in motion.  This is going to get uglier still in a very big hurry. 

 

[emrr]

NPR's Greg Myre reports, Trump's executive order "doesn't include any countries from which radicalized Muslims have actually killed Americans in the U.S. since Sept. 11, 2001."

Greg notes that the countries of origin of radicalized Muslims who have killed Americans on U.S. soil, beginning on Sept. 11, are instead Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Russia, United Arab Emirates and Pakistan.

 

[DaveP]

Yes it does look like a mess, especially for those who were already in the air when the order was made.

But you will have to have some special checks in place when you come to the end-game with IS this coming year.

As world forces are gathered against them, they will strike out at innocent civilian soft targets wherever they can.

This ban will close one door for them, but it won't stop false passport holders and the activation of cells already resident in the US or lone wolf attacks.

Stormy waters ahead!

DaveP

 

[abbey road d enfer]

This ban will close one door for them,

I'm not even remotely convinced it will...

but it won't stop false passport holders and the activation of cells already resident in the US or lone wolf attacks.

Exactly! It looks to me like a measure that's taken to convince his electors he's doing something. Those who have ready-made answers to any problems. We have a problem with immigration? You Just Have To throw 'em away. There's a lot of these YJHT's.
We have a problem with our export balance? YJHT ban foreign products. We have a problem with terrorism? YJHT give each citizen an assault rifle. We have a problem with finance going crazy? YJHT let it autoregulate. The list is endless.

I keep saying politicians don't learn lessons from history; e.g. the 1942 internment of Japanese American citizens, deemed "based on race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership" (conclusion of the Commission on Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians).

This ban is throwing the baby, not the bath water.

I'm really concerned about my next stay in New Orleans, scheduled for April; as a European citizen I may very well be subjected to the same ban, pending on the results of "discussions" between Trump and French, German and Russian governments. May be there'll come a time when only Brits will be allowed to travel to the States...as long as May continues to bend over...

 

[DaveP]

While I understand your view Abbey, but if he had started the final round against IS before this ban and given them a chance to infiltrate first, he would have been criticized for that too.

It is not sufficient to simply blame this reaction on Trump.  It all started with the failed multiculturalism experiment by the liberal democracies.  (Merkel declared it failed).  What happened was that radical Muslim preachers sought sanctuary in London and elsewhere to start recruiting Jihadists.

I think that Trump is just the embodiment of a reaction to years and years of failing to deal with the problem because of the liberal racist taunt.

It is also ironic and possibly tragic, that Marine le Pen will become president because Fillon got his wife paid 500,000 Euros a year for secretarial services.  What is wrong with these people?  Don't they think they will ever be caught?

DaveP

 

[abbey road d enfer]

While I understand your view Abbey, but if he had started the final round against IS before this ban and given them a chance to infiltrate first, he would have been criticized for that too.

Exactly; that's why I wrote "It looks to me like a measure that's taken to convince his electors he's doing something".

I think that Trump is just the embodiment of a reaction to years and years of failing to deal with the problem because of the liberal racist taunt.

What worries me is that he's on cloud 9 at the moment, with incredible popular support, which would be an opportunity to think laterally, but no, he just applies the same old receipes that consistently failed. It all boils down to my pet peeve; not wanting to learn from history.

It is also ironic and possibly tragic, that Marine le Pen will become president because Fillon got his wife paid 500,000 Euros a year for secretarial services.  What is wrong with these people?  Don't they think they will ever be caught?

One of the issues is that, in order to cross the obstacles on the presidential road, the candidates need the support of an established party, with age-old traditions of trickery, fiscal immunity and sense of being above the law, which rubs off on them. Some fools never learn...

 

[nielsk]

I think it is insufficient to say " It all started with the failed multiculturalism experiment by the liberal democracies", this goes much further back, to the age of British Imperialism and early American Corporate exploitation, in the form of interfering with existing countries and governments in order to exploit their natural resources. So many of the Islamic aggression movements aimed at the western world  are a linear evolution to the occupation then  partition of India and the Middle East and the exploitation of oil.
Until we truly come to terms with the fact that over the course of history we caused most of this crap, we will never go down the long , tough row of actually solving it.