Driving a new ground spike
- Thread starter Tubetec
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I do have a mains install tester , its capable of generating its own test voltages up to 1kv for offline testing the insulation of installations .
I could crock clamp to the ground wire coming up at the pole base and use my garden extension cable to connect back the fifty or so yards to the new ground rod and test gear ,apply a given voltage to earth and see what comes back at the far end .
I think theres a variation on the same theme used in geology , the direction of a seam of minerals might be determined by resistivity tests of the earth .
I can easily measure the resistance of the cable , the tester allows you to apply an offset to account for any resistance in the cable itself .
I could crock clamp to the ground wire coming up at the pole base and use my garden extension cable to connect back the fifty or so yards to the new ground rod and test gear ,apply a given voltage to earth and see what comes back at the far end .
I think theres a variation on the same theme used in geology , the direction of a seam of minerals might be determined by resistivity tests of the earth .
I can easily measure the resistance of the cable , the tester allows you to apply an offset to account for any resistance in the cable itself .
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you mean my old hot water heater that tried to electrocute me? (the heating element rusted through and energized the hot water.) Now my water heater tank is grounded to my fuse panel.
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Today I fixed an odd electrical failure... I had a light switch that refused to turn off... It was an old... old school heavy duty switch, the kind that requires extra force to switch. The switch toggle toggled back and forth but the power stayed on.
I bought the finest new replacement wall switch that Walmart sells for $3 and swapped it out today. While I was unscrewing one of the mains power wires, I heard a loud click. Now the switch magically works again... I think there is some extra mechanical ju-ju inside to make a low resistance switch contact and it was stuck on. I wasn't interested enough to dissect it.
JR
Speedskater
Well-known member
The “Ground” Myth by Dr. Bruce Archambeault
https://web.mst.edu/~jfan/slides/Archambeault2.pdf
105 slides long.
https://web.mst.edu/~jfan/slides/Archambeault2.pdf
105 slides long.
They forgot ground buss... must have used spell check....
JR
JR
Speedskater
Well-known member
Keith Armstrong, an EMC expert in the UK writes:
There is No Such Thing as “Earth” or “Ground” for SI, PI and EMC
Currents always flow in closed loops. So the idea that the earth/ground electrodes provide a perfect zero-impedance sink that we can use to absorb, or otherwise make unwanted electrical power, signals or noises go away, can’t possibly be true – it is a total myth, pure and simple, having no basis in reality in this universe.
Even if a zero-impedance earth/ground could exist (which it can’t, because everything has impedance) – if we sent some unwanted current into it, the current would come back via some other route to complete its loop. So, then: no current sinks (in this universe).
Earth/ground is only a valid concept (can only have any effect) for human safety, where it an issue of preventing electric shock by limiting the maximum potential differences that someone could come into contact with, whether they are caused by mains electricity leakage currents or faults, or lightning strokes.
Even when earth/ground electrodes are doing their thing for safety reasons, the relevant currents still flow in closed loops.
There is No Such Thing as “Earth” or “Ground” for SI, PI and EMC
Currents always flow in closed loops. So the idea that the earth/ground electrodes provide a perfect zero-impedance sink that we can use to absorb, or otherwise make unwanted electrical power, signals or noises go away, can’t possibly be true – it is a total myth, pure and simple, having no basis in reality in this universe.
Even if a zero-impedance earth/ground could exist (which it can’t, because everything has impedance) – if we sent some unwanted current into it, the current would come back via some other route to complete its loop. So, then: no current sinks (in this universe).
Earth/ground is only a valid concept (can only have any effect) for human safety, where it an issue of preventing electric shock by limiting the maximum potential differences that someone could come into contact with, whether they are caused by mains electricity leakage currents or faults, or lightning strokes.
Even when earth/ground electrodes are doing their thing for safety reasons, the relevant currents still flow in closed loops.
Read my sig...
Yeah - Keith Armstromg / Cherryclough is a good source of knowledge and sense on these things.
Related info site:
Helping You Get More From EMC Standards - EMC Standards
Uh oh... wouldn't that be a ground loop? 
JR
JR
Don't you meanwouldn't that be a ground loop?
I believe a notable difference is that in most of Europe differential breakers are mandatorily installed at the distro board and it results in the obligation of distributing both Live and Neutral. In many older installations, Live was run independantly of Neutral, which resulted in breakers tripping if Live and Neutral were not coming from the same breaker.
Installing the breakers at the outlets solves this issue but it's not necessarily good.
I guess the two ground connections does result in a short ground loop , but the guy assured me it isnt an issue to worry about . In any case I replaced the thinner cable with 16mm sq so most of the fault current will take the path of least resistance .
Ground loops are not necessarily evil.
Think of the loop that happens between the top and the bottom of your spike.
Think of the loop that happens between the top and the bottom of your spike.
What is the path of the current loop, and what voltage difference is driving current in that loop? I was hoping that JR would put some kind of sarcasm indicator in his response just to avoid confusion.
If you have any fault current flowing in your earth connection (that is connection from house panel to physical soil, not safety green wire connection within the house walls) then you have a dangerously mis-wired house.
Again, follow the current loops. Where would the source and destination be of any current flow that would have to travel through the soil connection? What is the resistance of soil, and from that what is maximum current flow you could get at house voltages, or conversely what is the voltage drop you would expect for fault currents?
The principles aren't that complicated, but you do have to actually think just a little bit about what is going on, and not just let the phrase "ground" unconsciously equate with "magic" in your thinking.
Mmmm...thanks for reminding me that I need to get our place brought up to spec
Invoice in the post 
There are pros and cons to the two approaches... EU RCDs are typically installed at the panel protecting an entire branch circuit, and the US GFCI protects single outlets, while capable of supporting multiple outlets in series protected by the first GFCI outlet..
The RCD protecting an entire branch uses a higher 30mA threshold, and still get complaints about false trips (in damp weather and dodgy building wiring). The US GFCI uses a smaller 6mA trip threshold for even more safety, while 30mA will not kill you, it can sting, and knock you off a ladder.
RCD is more cost effective all else equal... they both can can save lives, and thats a good thing.
JR
As I said previously my electrical installation is relatively modern , ELCB protected , so in the case there is a fault current ,due to a bad appliance the whole system is disconnected in milliseconds .
To be quite frank C-audle Id rather not have you try and put words in my mouth or have you come at me with that condescending tone, . Abbey kindly corrected my original assumption that an actual earth connection was nessesary to help protect against the appearance of noise , where in fact its purely for safety reasons its there .
Obviously audio equipment that runs on battery supplies has no grounding issues and doesnt need any connection to 'earth' to help protect from noise , well why cant we test the hypothesis ?
To be quite frank C-audle Id rather not have you try and put words in my mouth or have you come at me with that condescending tone, . Abbey kindly corrected my original assumption that an actual earth connection was nessesary to help protect against the appearance of noise , where in fact its purely for safety reasons its there .
Obviously audio equipment that runs on battery supplies has no grounding issues and doesnt need any connection to 'earth' to help protect from noise , well why cant we test the hypothesis ?
