impeachment stupidity

[living sounds]

There were actual crimes committed by Nixon's bumbling crew of burglars.

Mueller said the only reason he didn't bring an indictment against Trump was that DOJ memo (excluding a sitting President from indictment).

He should have been in jail eons ago, NOT running a "shake-up" for people who want to change horses in midstream...

The fallout when the pendulum swings back to the left will be just as unbearable...but less televised...

Yes, he should have been, like Epstein, Cheney, Kissinger and other powerfull people who got away with murder.

As for the pendulum swinging back left, I think people have nothing but fond nostalgia for the economy and widely shared prosperity the New Deal policies created. So there's a good chance it will be very bearable indeed.

 

[Gold]

Not to feed this veer but if anything,  the powerful man taking advantage of a young intern is probably a bigger deal in today's climate (with #metoo movement) than it was back in then.

Agreed but it could still get you fired.  Bob Packwood comes to mind.

This entire manufactured (constitutional?) crisis seems quaint... but that's what politician have to do when times are good.

Pressuring a foreign leader to smear  your political rival seems like a big deal to me.



JR
[/quote]

 

[CJ]

we could have Satan for president and nobody would complain as long as the economy was doing good.

 

[DaveP]

The Dems are sure you have

DaveP

 

[desol]

He's actually considered to be(by some rabbi's) and now considers himself as 'the chosen one'....sent on behalf of god in the name of Israel.  :

Holding back aid to hospitals, sleeping around with prostitutes, feeding hate and racism....I don't think I need to continue.

 

[sodderboy]

The post title says it all-

stupidity

 

[living sounds]

Impeachment wisdom, after all?

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/09/27/trump-impeachment-whistleblower-ukraine-004984

 

[Recording Engineer]

It’s an interesting talking point of Trump and some of his supporters touting civil war certainly erupting should he get impeached.

I know it’s no more than their usual scare-tactic, but sometimes I wonder if they truly believe that if there is enough evidence to get him impeached in the House and presented in trial with the Senate, that all hell would break-loose, even though it didn’t when Clinton was impeached for simply lying on the stand for sexual relations with one consenting person of age.

But you know, he may be right, considering how many white hate groups have popped back out of their swamps feeling vindicated and represented by him.

 

[desol]

While democrats are acting like responsible adults, (ultra-nationalist) republicans are acting like.....(there are no words).

 

[JohnRoberts]

It’s an interesting talking point of Trump and some of his supporters touting civil war certainly erupting should he get impeached.

First I've heard of that.  We actually had a civil war, this is not remotely like that.

I know it’s no more than their usual scare-tactic, but sometimes I wonder if they truly believe that if there is enough evidence to get him impeached in the House and presented in trial with the Senate, that all hell would break-loose, even though it didn’t when Clinton was impeached for simply lying on the stand for sexual relations with one consenting person of age.

Anybody with half a clue knows that this impeachment theatrics is a blatant political strategy with little chance of success. President Clinton was not removed from office and gained in popularity after his. One party impeachments are not well received by both parties. Do they want VP Pence for president instead? Now he's an actual conservative.  Their hope that this will weaken President Trump before 2020 vote could actually help him if he looks like a victim of party politics overreach.

But you know, he may be right, considering how many white hate groups have popped back out of their swamps feeling vindicated and represented by him.

Seriously?

Instead, how about tens of millions of voters unhappy about the opposition trying to nullify their 2016 vote.

This is all a distraction to diminish the investigation into the investigation (DOJ inspector general, FISA courts, etc). They would love to discredit Barr (or get him to recuse himself) before the investigation results start getting released.

The swamp dwellers are upset about their old business model getting upset. This is about to get interesting.

JR

 

[hodad]

Instead, how about tens of millions of voters unhappy about the opposition trying to nullify their 2016 vote.

This is all a distraction to diminish the investigation into the investigation (DOJ inspector general, FISA courts, etc). They would love to discredit Barr (or get him to recuse himself) before the investigation results start getting released.

JR

Conspiracy theory much?  It's funny how Rs these days put full faith and confidence into loony ideas strung together by the merest of gossamer threads, and yet they refuse to acknowledge truths that are staring them straight in the face. 

I'm sure if Barr continues to investigate he'll come up with something that stands up to scrutiny almost as well as Pizzagate did. 

Thought exercise:  What if Trump were selling "audiophile" stereo gear instead of being president?  Would certain parties here take so kindly to his lies, exaggerations, bluster and self-dealing? 

------------------------------
Instead, how about tens of millions of voters unhappy about the opposition trying to nullify their 2016 vote.

If Trump has committed high crimes and or misdemeanors, then he is the one nullifying the 2016 vote.  That's like saying it's the judge's fault that someone committed murder.  Absolutely ludicrous. 

You should be unhappy about Trump violating the trust you put in him with your vote .  It's not Congress's fault that Trump has abused the power of the presidency.  That's all him. 

 

[JohnRoberts]

Conspiracy theory much?  It's funny how Rs these days put full faith and confidence into loony ideas strung together by the merest of gossamer threads, and yet they refuse to acknowledge truths that are staring them straight in the face. 

I'm sure if Barr continues to investigate he'll come up with something that stands up to scrutiny almost as well as Pizzagate did. 

Thought exercise:  What if Trump were selling "audiophile" stereo gear instead of being president?  Would certain parties here take so kindly to his lies, exaggerations, bluster and self-dealing? 

------------------------------
Instead, how about tens of millions of voters unhappy about the opposition trying to nullify their 2016 vote.

If Trump has committed high crimes and or misdemeanors, then he is the one nullifying the 2016 vote.  That's like saying it's the judge's fault that someone committed murder.  Absolutely ludicrous. 

You should be unhappy about Trump violating the trust you put in him with your vote .  It's not Congress's fault that Trump has abused the power of the presidency.  That's all him.

Be a little more patient but thanks for demonstrating my point about how we are seeing two completely different movies play out. 

JR

PS: I didn't put any faith in President Trump, only that he would be a lesser evil than Hillary. He has exceeded my expectations and his efforts to drain the swamp has the swamp critters angry (another good thing IMO).

 

[living sounds]

There have only been three Impeachment Processes, extrapolating from that limited a data set is tricky. Trump certainly is not Bill Clinton, and a blowjob from a consenting adult is not the same thing as trying to pressure a foreign power to find dirt on his political opponent. And there's that long, long list of other misdeads Trump has commited, as well as those he is suspected of having commited.

The one good thing I see about this President is that he seems commited not to start another war. Very likely for the wrong reasons, but it is something.

 

[hodad]

Be a little more patient but thanks for demonstrating my point about how we are seeing two completely different movies play out. 

It's great to talk about 2 different movies, and I get it...but would you say that someone who believes the moon landings were faked has equally valid beliefs as, say, Buzz Aldrin, who actually landed on the moon?  Or that flat earthers' view is just as valid as those who think the earth is round? 

There are beliefs and belief systems that match empirical evidence far better than others.  Which is why the "2 different movies" line only goes so far with me. 

 

[JohnRoberts]

It's great to talk about 2 different movies, and I get it...but would you say that someone who believes the moon landings were faked has equally valid beliefs as, say, Buzz Aldrin, who actually landed on the moon?  Or that flat earthers' view is just as valid as those who think the earth is round? 

As I repeated fairly recently I prefer electronics because a $20 VOM can provide objective truth.

There are beliefs and belief systems that match empirical evidence far better than others.  Which is why the "2 different movies" line only goes so far with me.

ding ding ding....  and how much empirical evidence have we seen these days.  Courts of law are supposed to deal with facts (at least they try to within the frailties of human memory, making even eye witness testimony suspect), politics is all about marshaling consent to gain influence, when empirical evidence does not agree with the picture they are painting they disregard it. Politicians paint with words and some are better than others, some are transparently laughable.

Sorry for wasting your time, I doubt my observations (about the political process) will change your "beliefs", or lead you to inspect the empirical evidence supporting those. 

I believe I'll have another cup of coffee, too early for beer.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

There have only been three Impeachment Processes, extrapolating from that limited a data set is tricky. Trump certainly is not Bill Clinton, and a blowjob from a consenting adult is not the same thing as trying to pressure a foreign power to find dirt on his political opponent. And there's that long, long list of other misdeads Trump has commited, as well as those he is suspected of having commited.

In the past social media movements had leaders... these days the "cancellation" movement is driven by individuals with too much time on their hands, digging through social media history for old mistakes. This seems to be gaining strength rather than fading.

I am really glad I am old, and there weren't cameras everywhere when I showed my a__.  I suspect Justin Trudeau wishes he didn't like to dress up in brown face (whatever that is), or take so many pictures.

The one good thing I see about this President is that he seems commited not to start another war. Very likely for the wrong reasons, but it is something.

Yes, another pleasant surprise. You wouldn't know it from his blowhard "mind of consciousness" tweets, but he generally ends up with a relatively common sense policy.

He was aggressive about removing the ISIS caliphate, but if anything a little too soft perhaps with the Taliban in Afghanistan who consider it weakness.  He believes anything can be negotiated, but the jury is still out on some of the more difficult world issues he is wrestling with.  This with the opposition party working overtime to make him appear weak while he is at the United Nations dealing with world leaders by dropping the impeachment investigation announcement (without an actual vote) while he was literally at the UN, and refusing to ratify trade deals already made. 

I do not care for what modern politics has become but too many people are profiting from the divisive partisan controversy (media with eyeballs, politicians with campaign funds). So I expect it will continue until something stops the party, not sure what that could be and I don't care to speculate.

Good luck to us all...

JR

 

[Recording Engineer]

Seriously?

Instead, how about tens of millions of voters unhappy about the opposition trying to nullify their 2016 vote.

This is all a distraction to diminish the investigation into the investigation (DOJ inspector general, FISA courts, etc). They would love to discredit Barr (or get him to recuse himself) before the investigation results start getting released.

JR

Ok, maybe that’s Trump’s and some of his supporter’s position on the civil war thing, but that’s just as absurd, if there was actually enough evidence to impeach him.

Interesting take on all this being just a distraction of the investigation of the investigation. I’d certainly be more inclined if the stance was simply about being more rhetoric and strategy from the left politicians... So far, it’s not as if the investigation of the investigation is not. I’ve yet to see anything otherwise, but time will tell.

I know all our leaders absolutely have to make an amazing amount of unfathomable decisions on a daily-basis on a scale that I couldn’t ever imagine or understand; a position I will never be in, nor would I ever want to be. But in general, on both sides of the aisle, I feel they’re making those crazy decisions based on what they truly feel is best for the country, even if I cannot understand why. I do not feel that with our current president.  I really have a hard time understanding anyone who does.

Honestly, it’s really hard for me to understand how much both sides suck up and re-spew all this BS from politicians. I’m also truly dumbfounded how anyone could ever see Trump as the leader of swamp draining and the leader of calling out the media. I mean of all people? Really?

Do we need a major shake up? Yes! For a long time! But I don’t understand how anyone thought, Trump, yeah, he’s the one for the job.

 

[hodad]

Sorry for wasting your time, I doubt my observations (about the political process) will change your "beliefs", or lead you to inspect the empirical evidence supporting those. 

JR

Consider your sources.  Your Glorious Leader regularly lies, dissembles, states falsehoods--however one wishes to put it.  This is documented.  There's been more than one occasion where he's said something (on video) and later denied he said it.  Even if you allow  wiggle room on some of the things he's said that are considered untrue, the number of falsehoods he utters is astounding. 

I also want to refer back to the Karl Rove comment to Ron Suskind (so many years ago) wherein he mocked people in the "reality-based" community.  At  the time I thought it was simply Rove bragging about what a great liar he was, but it's dawned on me lately that this is what Republicanism has become:  reality (and morality) are outdated concepts.  Those in power make up stories to justify their actions as their followers wait eagerly to lap it up and feel justified and superior. 

Half of Trump's magic is that his audience has been so fully primed to be lied to, to have someone play to their basest instincts while also allowing them to feel that they're right, so that even when they're behaving horribly they actually feel justifed in their actions. 

"Reality" is, and likely always will be, a thorny topic--at least as long as there are sentient beings around to ponder it.  But I personally have no interest in giving up on that pondering;  unfortunately, it seems that Republicans, with a big assist from their leadership, are moving in exactly that direction. 

Sorry if this is a bit jumbled & unfleshed-out, but it's my rough take on the rise of right-wing relativism. 

 

[living sounds]

In the past social media movements had leaders... these days the "cancellation" movement is driven by individuals with too much time on their hands, digging through social media history for old mistakes. This seems to be gaining strength rather than fading.

I am really glad I am old, and there weren't cameras everywhere when I showed my a__.  I suspect Justin Trudeau wishes he didn't like to dress up in brown face (whatever that is), or take so many pictures. Yes, another pleasant surprise. You wouldn't know it from his blowhard "mind of consciousness" tweets, but he generally ends up with a relatively common sense policy.

I agree. As I wrote in the other thread, I am glad I am not a teenager today. And I hated the moralising and digging up stuff from someones past back when Karl Rove and Roger Ailes started it.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I agree. As I wrote in the other thread, I am glad I am not a teenager today. And I hated the moralising and digging up stuff from someones past back when Karl Rove and Roger Ailes started it.

I doubt they started it, but only this modern post social media internet generation can let their fingers do the walking,  to so easily cancel others, like that new SNL comedian gonged before he could even show up on the new job, because of some lame post he made years ago when still a dumb kid. ... Perhaps this is why EU laws allow individuals to scrub their internet history. 

I hope kids today are paying attention to this before they post something that keeps them out of their favorite college (already happened), or worse.

JR

PS: I recall posting right here years ago about my disappointment that politicians didn't get busted more often for their selective stump speeches that vary from audience to audience (sometimes dramatically) by cellphone videos. I still think politicians should be subject to the same charges for lying to us, that we face if we lie to them.  : That said the political definition of lying varies quite a bit from the legal definition.  :

PPS: The next scary thing is movie technology that allows realistic looking/sounding simulations of anybody saying anything you want.