Iphone as test tone generator

[Gold]

I’ve used Samplitude/Sequoia as my DAW for over 20 years on a PC. I’ve always treated it as more of a stand alone uint than a general computer. It only runs the software I use and isn’t hooked up to the internet.

The surface is the first time I’ve tried to use a windows machine as a general purpose computer. The DAW machines always had a computer builder assemble everything and make sure it’s bullet proof.

I’ve gone through a couple of cheap interfaces. One broke so I put in a Presonus Audiobox. Both the one that broke and the Presonus would constantly crash. The software would not see the hardware or loose track of it. It turned out to be the drivers. As soon as I put a generic ASIO driver in (ASIOforall I think) everything became much more stable.

 

[Tubetec]

I had a more stable and reliable DAW under XP(32bit) than Ive ever managed to get from WIN7(64bit) using Reaper .
I gave up trying to record my main mix on the computer via an audio interface and went back to mixing down on my Akai DPS24 and transfering the file to XP with the supplied Akai software . Typically I end up with random glitches using the audio interface even with digital input . AKsys works great ,but it and the drivers for the DPS24 dont function in 64 bit OS's .

I also knew people who ran Mac based studios over the years , the amount of money they blew on vapour ware and the latest multicore towers would have paid for a second hand Audient console ,an IZ radar and a whole pile of decent outboard , now there left with a pile of scrap and the studio has long since shut down .

Lately Ive ended up involved in a studio project , its community based , funded by the tax payer and Im going to make damn sure they dont end up throwing money away for the sake of some computer nerds flight of fancy . Their building is being renovated just now so Im mucking in with the dirty work , there is an element of compromise as the building will also have other community based initiatives going on there ,like councilling services for people in need and other stuff like yoga and sewing lessons on different nights .

 

[Whoops]

I also knew people who ran Mac based studios over the years , the amount of money they blew on vapour ware and the latest multicore towers would have paid for a second hand Audient console ,an IZ radar and a whole pile of decent outboard , now there left with a pile of scrap and the studio has long since shut down .

I have no idea what you say to be honest.
Worked many years in a Professional studio, it had a MAC tower with Protools HD system, it was a very very stable system and was used to record everyday of the week.
The studio is still in business.
I could still use that system nowadays to do a complex record, the system was from 2006...

Studios shut down not because they have a MAC tower or a PC or crappy Audient console, they shut down because the recording industry is making less and less money everyday due to changes in the way people consume music and pay for music (or don't pay for music)

I have a new computer, but my main system it's still a 2012 Macbook Pro, it was the best investment I ever made, it's 10 years old and still records heavy multitracks easily with Protools 10, did countless of records with it, being it recording, mixing or mastering. It's very stable. It's the best Laptop ever made by any company

 

[Tubetec]

Im not trying to argue against computer recording , it obviously can work ,

What I'm fighting is this idea that it always has to be top spec cutting edge gear/software or your nothing ,
True the music business has changed in many ways , buy I knew a few who mortgaged their soul just to try and keep up with this bullshit ,

Im quite happy with my new mediaplayer/camera/tone generator iphone , cost me nothing ,no subscription, sign up or sim card , doesnt need any apps that vapourise into thin air ,and only makes noise when I tell it to

 

[Tubetec]

I took a look in a place that specialises in selling used tech ,
There were earlier model Ipads , in mint condition for between 55 an 80 euros ,
32 and 64 GB memory ,
The young lad at the counter explained that the app store no longer worked as Apple had withdrawn support for the older devices ,
I think I might grab one just for the hell of it , maybe down the road Apple will be forced to properly unlock the hardware due to EU regulations on E-waste .

It would be nice to verify the difference between the US and EU version lightening to headset or 'aux' 3.5mm TRRS jack .
I was able to measure exactly +1.15dbv output across the output of the dongle at 0db digital .
Below I prepared a Wav test wav file in Reaper , 440Hz tone ,-1.15 dbFS , phase inverted R ch ,
Maybe someone stateside can check with an RMS meter what comes out of the US version ?
Apple dont appear to give audio specifications of any kind along with their devices, audio within video is spec'd ,
For reguatory purposes this data must exist ,surely , nothing to stop anyone with Rew and a valid calibrated meter checking though .


The other idea that sprung to mind is this , these dongles have very low output impedence ,the output power rises dramatically in to low loads of around 30-75 ohms , could a small step up transformer be used across the output to better match into a line/bridging input ?
an extra 6 or 12 db free gain at the output would be handy . We also accrue galvanic isolation which helps prevent grounding issues from occuring ,

It seems running Linux virtually on the ipad is possible , it might open the device to a few free apps ,
Linux on the iPad - A Complete Guide - LinuxForDevices
This might be a more sensible way to do things ,
https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/rew-ipad.9778/
Altstore is another possibility , Welcome to AltStore

I might have to take your advice Whoopsy ,
Theres a few MAC intel Xeon towers appearing cheap second hand ,
Right around the same vintage as the laptop you use ,
it may also have optical spdif built in, this means we can isolate any nasties from the computer PSU and audio ground .
The option to use an iphone or ipad as display for REW in Mac OS sounds great , if an input on the iphone or ipad could be streamed back to the desktop for processing we have our cake and eat it .

Im starting to get tired of itunes already , theres a number of services running from startup that cause a momentary buffering every once in a while ,
its upto things in the backround I dont like ..... ,
back after a re-boot ,

 

[cyrano]

The young lad at the counter explained that the app store no longer worked as Apple had withdrawn support for the older devices ,

That sounds fairly fishy to me. Even a very old ipad still can connect to the appstore. There might be no apps for it, but it certainly can connect.

I wonder if they are selling locked devices?

I've got an ipad mini myself that's over a decade old. Bought it some years ago for 30€. No problem with the appstore.

Anyhow, for the price you mention, I would personally expect it to connect to the appstore.

I think I might grab one just for the hell of it , maybe down the road Apple will be forced to properly unlock the hardware due to EU regulations on E-waste .

The only lock present is the connection to the appstore. The only other way to get software on an ipad, is by compiling the code on your Mac and transfer it as "private software".

Of course, if you jailbreak the ipad, anything's possible. But then you lose Apple's ecosystem. Personally, I would run Linux on another device. AFAIK, wireless drivers are still highly experimental, fi. But I'll admit I haven't looked at the iOS jailbreaking scene in years.

It would be nice to verify the difference between the US and EU version lightening to headset or 'aux' 3.5mm TRRS jack .

The only difference is the level. Which can be altered by a Terminal command.

The hardware may differ, due to different cellular tech in the USA. But you can't use that US specific hardware in the UK anyway, so it doesn't matter.

I was able to measure exactly +1.15dbv output across the output of the dongle at 0db digital .
Below I prepared a Wav test wav file in Reaper , 440Hz tone ,-1.15 dbFS , phase inverted R ch ,
Maybe someone stateside can check with an RMS meter what comes out of the US version ?
Apple dont appear to give audio specifications of any kind along with their devices, audio within video is spec'd ,
For reguatory purposes this data must exist ,surely , nothing to stop anyone with Rew and a valid calibrated meter checking though .

With a free Apple developer account you get to see most of the docs...

The other idea that sprung to mind is this , these dongles have very low output impedence ,the output power rises dramatically in to low loads of around 30-75 ohms , could a small step up transformer be used across the output to better match into a line/bridging input ?
an extra 6 or 12 db free gain at the output would be handy . We also accrue galvanic isolation which helps prevent grounding issues from occuring ,

Why do you need these high levels?

It seems running Linux virtually on the ipad is possible , it might open the device to a few free apps ,
Linux on the iPad - A Complete Guide - LinuxForDevices
This might be a more sensible way to do things ,
https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/rew-ipad.9778/
Altstore is another possibility , Welcome to AltStore

Yeah, but why?
https://altstore.io/

I might have to take your advice Whoopsy ,
Theres a few MAC intel Xeon towers appearing cheap second hand ,
Right around the same vintage as the laptop you use ,
it may also have optical spdif built in, this means we can isolate any nasties from the computer PSU and audio ground .
The option to use an iphone or ipad as display for REW in Mac OS sounds great , if an input on the iphone or ipad could be streamed back to the desktop for processing we have our cake and eat it .

My "standard" Mac atm, is the 2012 MB Pro. It's the last one before Apple started redeveloping the hardware. But I don't like iMacs. If I wouldn't prefer a laptop, I'd get a Mini. Best price/performance.

Im starting to get tired of itunes already , theres a number of services running from startup that cause a momentary buffering every once in a while ,
its upto things in the backround I dont like ..... ,
back after a re-boot ,

It's sending hashes of your music to Apple, to aid with suggestions. You can turn it off in the preferences by telling it not to use the Music store.

 

[Whoops]

Im not trying to argue against computer recording , it obviously can work ,

What I'm fighting is this idea that it always has to be top spec cutting edge gear/software or your nothing ,

I completely agree with that, there’s no need to trying to keep up with technology by the minute.
As I told in the last message I could use a system from 2006 to do a record perfectly, and the system I use the most is 10 years old and still going strong.

Im quite happy with my new mediaplayer/camera/tone generator iphone , cost me nothing ,no subscription, sign up or sim card , doesnt need any apps that vapourise into thin air ,and only makes noise when I tell it to

For sure.
People seem to be imposed of changing phones every 2 years.
I was able to get my iPhone 5 to last for 7 years in service, the trick was to not do OS updates, kee it running with the old iOS as long as possible

 

[Tubetec]

I pulled the trigger on a Mac Pro desktop late 2013 model ,
9.9x6.6 inch cylinder ,11lbs, it has the on board spdif optical,
Looks like a rock solid base for few simple audio programs to run on ,
It need only tic over on idle for what I'm doing, no major graphics capabillities are required .


back to the phone and dongle ,
I changed to reading in dbm on the Fluke ,I set the default load to 35 ohms and I now read +15.70 dbm with a 0db dig signal.
That sounds like a decent sized output transformer would be required to do the job ,
Aside from any potential gain the transformer gives us , alleviating grounding problems ,for instance if the phone is on charge might be useful ,

 

[Whoops]

I pulled the trigger on a Mac Pro desktop late 2013 model ,
Looks like a rock solid base for few simple audio programs to run on ,

If you need ProTools 10 for that system let me know, it runs great on that machine and it's very stable

 

[cyrano]

People seem to be imposed of changing phones every 2 years.
I was able to get my iPhone 5 to last for 7 years in service, the trick was to not do OS updates, kee it running with the old iOS as long as possible

I have a friend who was using a 3GS on the original battery until very recently. That battery is still functional, but I gave him an iphone 7 because of some app not available on the 3GS' old iOS.

 

[Tubetec]

I might just stick with Reaper for now as DAW ,

I remembered my buddy in Apple showing me bootcamp years ago, that allows you run any version of windows from its own partition or drive on Mac hardware ,
I might be able to throttle the processing power of the Mac Pro way back ,
maybe even running a 32bit architecture, legacy OS , specifically for recording a few channels of audio ,a few plugins and REW ,


Theres a pile of really good audio interfaces with firewire connectivity being dumped on the second hand market just now , crazy money
The Mac pro's 6 thunderbolt 2 ports keeps your options open for as few years yet .
Driver and software availibility can be hit or miss , stuff just vanishes from the product support webpage . It can end up a hunt back in time to try and find the relevent driver versions .

Im sure everyone is familiar with the Mac Pro towers , the big brushed aluminium one ,
There being dumped now and its a sad waste ,
The enclosure itself would make great big class A tube amp project , maybe even a pair ...... , thats an idea for another day or 'Er indoors' will kick off WW3 on my ass

Ive finally dissabled everything relating to headphone/health reminders that I can ,the phone appeared to monitor what it thinks is noise exposure as if it was headphones connected ,where Im only taking a line out and there is no sound being prduced , this appears to be a requirement under EU regulations and its a pain in the ass . It messes with the volume control on you at times , seems to be fixed now ,every nag screen/reminder in the entire iOS has been dissabled permanently , I left the 999 emergency funtionality there and it still seeks a cell network on boot up , I gonna cut the cord on that soon and the mobile(cell) networking can be shut down completely , hopefully resulting in less RF interference and battery consumption .

 

[Whoops]

legacy OS , specifically for recording a few channels of audio ,a few plugins and REW ,

With the "Mac Pro desktop late 2013 model" use MAC OX Mavericks 10.9.5, it works flawlessly, and it's light on the system.
Then with Protools 10 and REW in that systems you will have a great recording and measuring tool

 

[Riley Casey]

... , I left the 999 emergency funtionality there and it still seeks a cell network on boot up , I gonna cut the cord on that soon and the mobile(cell) networking can be shut down completely , hopefully resulting in less RF interference and battery consumption .

Simply setting the phone to airplane mode will accomplish that. You may be over thinking here.

 

[kags]

With the "Mac Pro desktop late 2013 model" use MAC OX Mavericks 10.9.5, it works flawlessly, and it's light on the system.
Then with Protools 10 and REW in that systems you will have a great recording and measuring tool

Many commercial and private studios in Los Angeles run 2013 "Trash Can" Mac Pros for their main Pro Tools rigs. They run well on High Sierra up to Monterey with any flavor of Pro Tools from PT 10 up to current 2022 versions (OS dependent, of course). The TB ports work well with FW400 and FW800 adapters, as well as many docks. RAM is inexpensive for these machines now. Real workhorses!

 

[Tubetec]

I was able to get the trashcan up and running on the newest Mac os ,with the help of something called open core patcher ,
no surprise bootcamp failed to run XP , any older MAC os I try doesnt see the main ssd drive ,so I cant install it ,

I did manage to find a cheap lightening (DAC)to line output cable for the Iphone , 2.99euros in the thrift store , it works alright , not sure how good or bad it is yet , cheap as chips as the old saying goes.
Be interesting to look at it in REW .

 

[Mr. Moscode]

Since I see itunes mentioned I just had a bad experience with Apple when I complained about the prompts that kept insisting I sign into the store. The Apple Genius said to update Itunes, I was running El Capitan and I have Sibelius music writing software and Digital Performer on a late 2012 MB Pro, 16g 1t ssd. Itunes wiped out some file that Sibelius needs to run. What a pain in my butt! I had to restore the entire machine from a backup I fortunately had done a few day's prior. Then I had to go search for my DP installer cd to resurrect that.
I confess, I unloaded on the poor apple rep, one for not knowing anything about this problem, for Apple's lack of support for everything prior to Monterey and for apple f-g up my machine.

The moral of the story - beware of Itunes updates and Sibelius. Step away from the update button.

 

[Whoops]

I have a 2012 13" Macbook Pro,
it still runs very well in 2023.

The trick to make it work this long is that I never updated the sytem after Mavericks (2016).

BE AWARE - Updates from Apple (and other companies) are programed also to make your perfectly working device obsolete. Don't do any updates in case is truly/detrimental necessary.

I never felt any detrimental need to updated the MacOS version after 2016, everything works, and I can do everything I need.

 

[rock soderstrom]

BE AWARE - Updates from Apple (and other companies) are programed also to make your perfectly working device obsolete. Don't do any updates in case is truly/detrimental necessary.

That is very true. Especially old Ipads are literally updated to death by Apple. Even simple applications that worked wonderfully before, such as the internet browser, no longer work.

Be careful!

 

[Whoops]

That is very true. Especially old Ipads are literally updated to death by Apple. Even simple applications that worked wonderfully before, such as the internet browser, no longer work.

Be careful!

For sure, and when you update the iOS the battery suddenly only lasts half the time as before and the device starts to be slow like a snail.
I was able to maintain my iPhone 5 for 7 years because I resisted as long as possible the constant software updates, of course I had to replace myself some parts over the years, but it kept going and parts for iPhone are widely available and repair guides are everywhere.

People complain a lot about Apple but I don't know anyone in my big social circle that was able to make an Android phone last for 7 years (samsung, etc, etc) and also I don't know anyone that was able to have the same PC laptop working for 11 years and still going strong like my 2012 Macbook is.
And my Macbook takes a rough life as it goes always in my bag for tours and concerts, it's been quite abused and it stands it, a plastic laptop PC would break in pieces after the first year.

Tully all IT and technological companies work hard for and are based on planned obsolescence.
Apple are bastards but all the other ones are even worse because they do inferior products

 

[Mr. Moscode]

Your point is well taken. How dumb of me not to realize Apple puts poison pills in their updates. Still running High Sierra on this one. The only thing that pushed me into High Sierra was Turbo Tax. I can't help but think they are in cahoots with Apple. TT has no need for the latest and greatest architecture. I did buy my wife a new Apple laptop in 2020 because of the Zoom pandemic and she had to do her job remotely. But it's Intel.