New body alert

[vintagelove]

Not sure how this could be the case. Transient response is determined by diaphragm mass. It is also inseparable from frequency response. This is physics, even though the marketing often advertises something else. The mass of the diaphragm is not affected by the miniscule amount of gold. The only way this could be the true is if they used significantly thinner diaphragm material. Which could be the case. SDC doesn't necessarily have better transient response, this is again dependent on other parameters. Transient response is very difficult to ***** without doing objective measurements. Even some modern ribbon mics have better transient response than some older SDCs.

Images like this are spread throughout the interned, and autors live in delusion they show transient response. In reality they show effect of several different things, that may or not have something to do with transient response.

That being said, published FR of JZ mics do show excellent transient response presuming they are acurate. I am pretty sure golden drop technology is not the sole reason for this.

I also applaud to JZ for taking the effort to innovate.

Obviously I can't tell you the exact cause of the improved transient response, but I can tell you it's there in comparing it to the same capsule with the traditional construction (and being very familiar with countless other mics). Perhaps they did use a thinner diaphragm as well?


I just went to see if I could find what you mentioned they published, and I came upon the following. Truthfully it's out of my depth to call BS or not, but I'd like to hear your opinion on it either way.

"microdots help avoiding membrane resonance frequency waves and because they are slightly lighter they have better high frequency transient response than the classic sputtering"

On the JZ site it says the capsules diaphragm is lighter, but I don't know if they're claiming that is just because of the dots, or they actually changed it's construction.



PS, I always have the nagging desire to pull the capsules from this pair and use them to build a nice set of tube mics... I have some really nice mics already, but... I can't help wondering what they'd sound like....

 

[terry setter]

...Transient response is determined by diaphragm mass. It is also inseparable from frequency response. This is physics, even though the marketing often advertises something else. The mass of the diaphragm is not affected by the miniscule amount of gold. The only way this could be the true is if they used significantly thinner diaphragm material. Which could be the case.

I also applaud to JZ for taking the effort to innovate.

Small point: I'm thinking that transient response is also determined by compliance (in addition to mass), like it is with speakers. All points above being taken into account, I'm guessing that the JZ mics use very thin diaphragm material (maybe 3 mil); that the capsule output - which, if use at a relatively standard distance from the backplate - will be lower with less gold sputtered onto it - might be elevated to "normal" usable levels by having higher polarizing voltage than "normal"; and that a particularly quiet amplifier circuit is used to keep the overall noise level down and lessen the PV required to get a decent signal from the capsule.

I wonder if the unusual sputtering pattern causes even any small amount of increase in the diaphragm's inclination to break into nodes of vibration.

Ah, so many variables, so few meaningful measurements....

I also agree that it is good to see real innovation, especially if it leads to better mics and greater understanding of what truly works, what doesn't, and why. So much "innovation" is just new ways to approximate old success stories at lower costs.

 

[kingkorg]

Just as i thought. ATK measurements show lousy transient response, and very different frequency responses compared to published ones by JZ. FR is predictably limited above 15K, which points to typical large diaphragm transient response. ATK measurements can be slightly off, but not by this much. This seems to me like usual marketing BS.

They have significant boost up to 13K which probably gives the impression they have more of the high end content.

And here you have a Schoeps mic which doesn't have much high end hype, yet it has extended FR and hence much better transient response.

 

[Barry Hufker]

Please explain what "ATK measurements" are. Thanks!

 

[vintagelove]

Just as i thought. ATK measurements show lousy transient response, and very different frequency responses compared to published ones by JZ. FR is predictably limited above 15K, which points to typical large diaphragm transient response. ATK measurements can be slightly off, but not by this much. This seems to me like usual marketing BS.

They have significant boost up to 13K which probably gives the impression they have more of the high end content.View attachment 113488

And here you have a Schoeps mic which doesn't have much high end hype, yet it has extended FR and hence much better transient response.

View attachment 113489

Interesting, but kind of an apples to oranges comparison.

The Schoeps is a $3000 SDC voiced very neutral, while the JZ you can grab on sale for $700 and is going for that exciting LDC voicing (with a slightly rolled off extreme top end).


Aside from that, I would appreciate if you said a word or two about what you see in the frequency response graphs that is telling you the difference in transient response between (any) 2 mics.


Lastly, I can't say this for sure, but in comparing the golden drop capsule (in the vintage 67 mic) to the pre drop capsule (in a Violet Global Pre), there is a bit of a high end roll off in the vintage 67. I suspect it is rolled off via the mic's amplifier circuit (in an attempt to mimic a "67") as the global pre body has a flat response. Perhaps that is partly responsible for what you're seeing?


FWIW, I heard the difference in transient response, before I ever read anything about their golden drop capsules. So marketing had no effect on my observations. In fact, I bought them thinking they were the same as the (non drop) vin67 capsule I have in the "bayonet" form factor that I use with my Telefunken 301/2 (the one with the msc2 tube) and the global pre.

I really wanted a stereo pair of those vin67/global pre, but I couldn't find a second one. After buying the JZ's, I was pleasantly surprised at the difference.

 

[kingkorg]

I used Schoeps graph to show the difference. LDC can be created such that it achieves same result. But it's not an easy task.

Compared to Schoeps, those JZ graphs show HF peak, and then sharp drop off in FR above say 15K. This is typical behavior for k67 type capsules. Above 20k (not visible in this graph) the FR will continue to droop. In order to have good transient response, FR at 15K and above would need to stay at least at 0db. This can be seen at Schoeps graph.

You can not have superior transient response if FR falls so rapidly at very high frequencies. Not to say JZ has a bad transient response, but it's nowhere near good SDC, or better than a regular k67.

 

[Khron]

Please explain what "ATK measurements" are. Thanks!

https://audiotestkitchen.com/

 

[Dylan W]

Just as i thought. ATK measurements show lousy transient response, and very different frequency responses compared to published ones by JZ. FR is predictably limited above 15K, which points to typical large diaphragm transient response. ATK measurements can be slightly off, but not by this much. This seems to me like usual marketing BS.

They have significant boost up to 13K which probably gives the impression they have more of the high end content.View attachment 113488

And here you have a Schoeps mic which doesn't have much high end hype, yet it has extended FR and hence much better transient response.

View attachment 113489

How are you getting the transient response? Is it purely from the lack of high end over 15K?

 

[kingkorg]

How are you getting the transient response? Is it purely from the lack of high end over 15K?

In this case yes, but also knowing how LDC capsules behave. Especially k67. At 22K there will be no high end to speak of. Transient response is inseparable from frequency response, the capsule can't be "fast" if 22K droops 20db below 10K peak. Simply put capsule has to have extended frequency response sobthat it can react to fast transient. You can look at in in a way like a slew rate.

Some Earthworks mics for example go to 30K. Than there's Sankem and Sony mics that go even further.

Of course it is debatable if this has anything to to with perceived sound quality, but when talking in purely technical terms and JZ advertising i can't see their claims hold water.

There's this thing regarding flapping ribbons, and diaphragm returning to start position, but that is something else, and has nothing to do with transient response. LDC and SDC don't have this "issue".

 

[Barry Hufker]

Thank you Khron for clarifying the reference "ATK" to "Audio Test Kitchen." I couldn't for the life of me imagine what parameter was termed ATK.