New CK12 capsule

[GeorgeToledo]

Do you know that AKG made 16 changes to the ck12 trying to make it flat. I have all 16 sets of blueprints!

An old AKG guy told me that they were aiming for different high end response from the capsules depending on what unit the capsule was destined for. It could be that he was describing an iterative design goal of flatter response that happened to correspond with various mic models. But at the time I took it that the capsule destined for a 414 may be adjusted differently than the capsule destined for a C4, for example. The overall point he was making was that swapping capsules may not give fully desired results.

 

[Tim Campbell]

George ask Dallas yourself

What is the membrane material? How was it sputtered? Was it aged? Is the plastic acrylic or polycarbonate? Is the acrylic machined or is it injected? Was it lapped? How was it lapped? Has the acrylic become an electret? How was the membrane tuned? To what frequency? How was it glued and with what glue? Is the chamber the correct size? Are the backplates shorted? Are the front and back halves properly matched? A capsule can outwardly match an original AKG CK12 and still make all these decisions incorrectly.

Here is a pair of AKG CK12 brass shallow chamber backplates/delay networks from the 1950's. As you can see they were not threaded into the plastic. They are knurled. The brass and plastic were heated and then pressed together. I am also adding a photo of 3 AKG chambered pieces all 3 of which are of different depths. Outwardly all 3 capsules look "correct" and a CK12 type capsule I built earlier but the photo is from 2004. The circumference is different because this capsule had a variable chamber so that I could precisely determine the effect of chamber size on frequency response.

George I have known most of the engineers at AKG, Neumann, Schoeps, Gefell, MBHO, Josephson, Brauner, Telefunken for at least 20 years and discussed every aspect of capsule construction with them as peers.

If you really feel this strongly about recreating the physical aspects of a CK12 capsule then you should follow your desires and build one but which one?

 

[paulcheeba]

I would love clones of this mid 60’s one. It sounds perfect.

 

[kingkorg]

I would love clones of this mid 60’s one. It sounds perfect.View attachment 111821

It would be awesome to measure the FR of it, would help revealing it's character.

What happened to this part?

 

[Tim Campbell]

kingkorg AKG put flats on the sides of the plastic of some series and stamped a serial number there. None of the "exact" clone makers do that hehehe.

 

[kingkorg]

kingkorg AKG put flats on the sides of the plastic of some series and stamped a serial number there. None of the "exact" clone makers do that hehehe

WoW!

 

[Moby]

So, if I understand correctly, new Chinese CK12 clone is actually CT12 clone. Or I misunderstood something?? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Tim Campbell]

Who knows Moby we haven't heard it yet or measured anything about it. We are just having a little fun .

Since none of the CK12 clones sound like mine or each other I don'tr expect this will sound like any of ours.

 

[Moby]

Who knows Moby we haven't heard it yet or measured anything about it. We are just having a little fun . Their construction happens to copy the fact that I seal my chamber which is a little odd.

Since none of the CK12 clones sound like mine or each other I don'tr expect this will sound like any of ours.

Well, right. Lets wait and hear it

 

[kingkorg]

Just received images of Chandler TG limited with it's glorious RK12 capsule.

This is what i'm talking about. Translated from German.

"The built-in microphone capsule is edge-terminated, thus based on AKG's CK-12 design. As for the manufacturer and exact specifications, that information is also kept secret. "

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Just received images of Chandler TG limited with it's glorious RK12 capsule.

This is what i'm talking about. Translated from German.

"The built-in microphone capsule is edge-terminated, thus based on AKG's CK-12 design. As for the manufacturer and exact specifications, that information is also kept secret. "

Of course they want to keep it secret, they know people don't want to spend $2000 on a microphone with a $30 Chinese capsule.

 

[soliloqueen]

Of course they want to keep it secret, they know people don't want to spend $2000 on a microphone with a $30 Chinese capsule.

it's more like $10-15, really

 

[kingkorg]

And now imagine the narrative with this new CK12, which will be of course QC tested, and built after some magical specs.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

And now imagine the narrative with this new CK12, which will be of course QC tested, and built after some magical specs.

I'm surprised we're not seeing more mic manufacturers buying the Telefunken branded version of the RK12 (which costs $275) and selling them for $4K. I should say I have nothing against that capsule as long as it's not advertised as being the same as the CK12, and I actually quite like the sound of it and the similar sounding center terminated K67s like the ones CAD and Lewitt use.

 

[paulcheeba]

Just received images of Chandler TG limited with it's glorious RK12 capsule.

This is what i'm talking about. Translated from German.

"The built-in microphone capsule is edge-terminated, thus based on AKG's CK-12 design. As for the manufacturer and exact specifications, that information is also kept secret. "

Anyone know what capsule is in the Chandler REDD ? Or even the tubes?

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

An old AKG guy told me that they were aiming for different high end response from the capsules depending on what unit the capsule was destined for. It could be that he was describing an iterative design goal of flatter response that happened to correspond with various mic models. But at the time I took it that the capsule destined for a 414 may be adjusted differently than the capsule destined for a C4, for example. The overall point he was making was that swapping capsules may not give fully desired results.

Its hard to say because I don't know what year capsules he'd be talking about, but there are different versions of the AKG capsules for different purposes, like the flat ones for the B-ULS, B-XLS, and current XLS models, and the bright ones for the C12 VR, C414 B-TLII, B-XLII, XLII, and C414 LTD, and I think the TLII/C12VR capsule is different from the XLII one, and there was the C414 EB teflon capsule too, and of course before that there was the classic brass one. The brass one was able be tuned so maybe they did tune them differently for different models, but I think even the same models of capsules from different C12s sounded pretty different.

 

[Matador]

What is the membrane material? How was it sputtered? Was it aged? Is the plastic acrylic or polycarbonate? Is the acrylic machined or is it injected? Was it lapped? How was it lapped? Has the acrylic become an electret? How was the membrane tuned? To what frequency? How was it glued and with what glue? Is the chamber the correct size? Are the backplates shorted? Are the front and back halves properly matched?

You are answering all these questions right??????

 

[Tim Campbell]

You are answering all these questions right??????

It is a bit funny, I did answer most of those questions here many, many, many years ago

 

[Nen'O]

Just received images of Chandler TG limited with it's glorious RK12 capsule.

This is what i'm talking about. Translated from German.

"The built-in microphone capsule is edge-terminated, thus based on AKG's CK-12 design. As for the manufacturer and exact specifications, that information is also kept secret. "

Last month I got from ebay 2 of those capsules, 40$ (shipping included), for mics with Shoeps circuits. Absolutely usable capsule and great sounding for that money. I was surprised how well off-axis worked when multitracking jazz band playing in the same room.

As with most audio gear these days, it looks like that cheap clones does the job and it does it well.
To buy the real thing or high quality boutique product you have to pay 100% more to get 10%-20% better quality product.
So why not take advantage of it?

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Last month I got from ebay 2 of those capsules, 40$ (shipping included), for mics with Shoeps circuits. Absolutely usable capsule and great sounding for that money. I was surprised how well off-axis worked when multitracking jazz band playing in the same room.

As with most audio gear these days, it looks like that cheap clones does the job and it does it well.
To buy the real thing or high quality boutique product you have to pay 100% more to get 10%-20% better quality product.
So why not take advantage of it?

This is a $2000 mic using a $15 capsule. Telefunken has also been doing this for a few years now, also using similarly misleading marketing. I'm all for using an affordable capsule if you're willing to put the work in to make it sound good (like building the right circuit for a K67), but don't slap a name on an otherwise cheaply made mic and charge 5-10x what it should cost because a high end company is selling it. If I want to pay that much for a mic with an edge terminated capsule that isn't accurate to the AKG designs I'll get a Neumann TLM 107.

Now in a $200-300 mic, I would love that style of capsule, though I'd hope for the 797 version specifically.