Rode NT1 Kit (the black one) Mods

[ricardo]

Thanks for the response Kingkorg

I use Line Audio CM4 for cardioid reference. ... I used both of these to make calibration file for CM4. It needs just a tiny bit of correction, it could really be used with no calibration, but i did my best to make measurements as precise as possible.

But that's just my personal trip. I use omni capsules for omni, and ribbons for F8.

Do you have the CM4 calibration handy? I would really like to look at it.



This brings back many memories.

I was a Beta tester for the early B&K TSR machines. I came up with Angelo Farina's method independently circa 1990. I wanted to measure speakers for response & THD in the theoretically shortest possible time. At that time, the computing power, and in particular, the A/Ds were too $$$ for what I wanted which was loadsa sets of Factory Test Eqpt. .. so it was all theoretical.

I think Angelo was shocked when he visited this beach bum in Cooktown and I showed him code that replicated his stuff.

I've used all the methods that Steve Temme describes in his video.

Sadly i can't do CK12 F8, as all the mic bodies i use it with are cardioid only. I have this weird trip and don't care about using LDCs in F8 and omni. I feel no matter what i do and what capsule it is i get weird responses, and feel like diaphragms fight each other.

Alas, this is exactly what I'm trying to get a handle on.

I did capsule & microphone design for Calrec but I've never designed a dual-diaphragm capsule for real. I see some of the problems you mention in the LDCs I've tested this Millenium. I'm tempted to see if they can be simply corrected by modifying eg a Chinese K67 capsule.

What size room are you doing your measurements? What's the floor-ceiling height?

BTW, I think yours are the best amatuer mike measurements I've seen on the internet this Millenium though I still have reservations

 

[kingkorg]

Thanks a milion. This means a lot coming from you! I basically live and operate in three countries, so sometimes i don't have my room with me, but i do have my mics.

My default measurement setup is in a heavily isolated drum room. 100kg/m³ rock wool covered every inch on the inside. 3m tall room. This is where i get best results, but i've had really similar results almost anywhere i've tried this technique. Low end does vary, but i am not that much interested in low end. It's pretty much flat on any LDC cardioid.

Sometimes i'm in a rented studio which has a cool mic locker, i use their gear and existing setup to measure them for my archive. As long as my mics, laptop, and interface are with me i can get consistent results to compare my builds or other mics. I've also done measurements outdoors when i don't have any treated room available.

 

[mhelin]

Regarding the polarization voltages (just started reading this thread from the beginning), it doesn't mean much but the polarization voltage is really the output voltage of the DC/DC converter minus the 6.3V bias voltage required for the Vgs of about -1V (on NT-1A at least, so it's capsule has just 66.5V over it).

 

[Andresound]

really I think these mics really shine with a good CK12

I can attest to the sound of a CT12 in a rode circuit. I recently replaced the capsule in my RODE classic (the original), with one of Tim’s TC12 capsule.., and I LOVE it!! Also a pleasure to deal with . So much so.., I have convinced my buddy to let Tim repair his early vintage genuine AKG c12. Highly recommend Tim Campbell

 

[Whoops]

I recently replaced the capsule in my RODE classic (the original), with one of Tim’s TC12 capsule.., and I LOVE it!!

What differences in Timbre did you noticed?

Thanks

 

[Andresound]

Soul, 3D and top end from heaven. Does not need EQ. Biased at 55v BTW

 

[Whoops]

Soul, 3D and top end from heaven.

I'm not really into gearslutz gibberish talk,
so I will pass that out

You're a new member, hope you have a great time here in the forum, be aware this is a technical forum and when we give those kind of opinions we are interested in technical descriptions, something that can be measured, not a bunch of subjective and meaningless terms

Best Regards

 

[Andresound]

Wow…, really?
4. You will find that the members of this community are incredibly courteous and respectful of each other, so please reciprocate those gestures. Leave the Flame-war mentality at another forum. Personal attacks as well as general hateful comments (regarding race, religion, gender, sex, etc...) will not be tolerated.

 

[rogs]

I'm not sure that English is Whoops' 1st language? - (He's located in Portugal) - so his comments may have lost something in translation?...

I do tend to agree a little with his sentiment though .... How does one qualify phrases like 'soul, 3D and top end from Heaven' in measurable scientific terms?
I understand this kind of phrase can appear in marketing 'copy', but does it have any merit in a genuine technical sense?

 

[Whoops]

I do tend to agree a little with his sentiment though .... How does one qualify phrases like 'soul, 3D and top end from Heaven' in measurable scientific terms?
I understand this kind of phrase can appear in marketing 'copy', but does it have any merit in a genuine technical sense?

You're correct it doesn't.

I asked "what were the differences noticed in Timbre by changing the capsule?"

The reply "Soul, 3D and top end from Heaven" is completely meaningless, to me or anyone else.
But member Andresound choose to see that as an attack instead of understanding how void of any significance are those words.

Only 1 year in the forum and only 2 posts, probably more time is needed...

Wish all good

 

[Andresound]

I was honestly not expecting a response like that. Anyway…, I am NOT an EE and do not have a huge technical vocabulary. However, this should not exclude me from attempting to give an opinion on first hand experience. I do however have more than enough experience (40+ years) in the music industry and am entitled to an opinion.
Basically the top end (5-10k) of my modded mic, as mentioned in previous posts (by other members), is not harsh!!! This can NOT be shown in a measurement. The “soul, 3D” comment cannot be explained in technical terms either…, but I guarantee you members who have experienced this “magic/voodoo/mojo whatever you want to call it”, will know what I am talking about. Maybe some will be brave enough to chime in. I am convinced that the main culprit is the capsule. I also have a NT2-A in my locker and have had the Classic II to directly compare. Both still have that “RODE” sound. However, the CT12 capsule transformed my Classic 1 into a great instrument. So much so, that it compares favourably to an early original AKG C12 I also have access to (from the LADYSMITH BLACK MAMBAZO fame), which can only be described in the same way as my first post. Go and listen to this South African a‘Capella group recorded on this EXACT microphone.

 

[rogs]

I was honestly not expecting a response like that. Anyway…, I am NOT an EE and do not have a huge technical vocabulary. However, this should not exclude me from attempting to give an opinion on first hand experience. I do however have more than enough experience (40+ years) in the music industry and am entitled to an opinion.
Basically the top end (5-10k) of my modded mic, as mentioned in previous posts (by other members), is not harsh!!! This can NOT be shown in a measurement. The “soul, 3D” comment cannot be explained in technical terms either…, but I guarantee you members who have experienced this “magic/voodoo/mojo whatever you want to call it”, will know what I am talking about. Maybe some will be brave enough to chime in. I am convinced that the main culprit is the capsule. I also have a NT2-A in my locker and have had the Classic II to directly compare. Both still have that “RODE” sound. However, the TC12 capsule transformed my Classic 1 into a great instrument. So much so, that it compares favourably to an early original AKG C12 I also have access to (from the LADYSMITH BLACK MAMBAZO fame), which can only be described in the same way as my first post. Go and listen to this South African a‘Capella group recorded on this EXACT microphone.

I'm sure you can understand that phrases like 'magic/voodoo/mojo' have little place in technical discussions....
There are however many, many views on the 'special' qualities of all sorts of microphones. These tend to refer to the non-linearities that are encountered for a whole variety of reasons..... Capsules, headbaskets, transformers, tubes, non - linear feedback circuitry .. the list is almost endless.

The problem is that the (often strong) views held about the 'special' characteristics of these microphones are always subjective.
One man's 'harsh' is another's 'bright' or 'airy' .... Those terms don't really have any place in technical explanations.

As an example, if I use an LDC capsule and apply 60 V of DC bias to it, and utilise it with a (really quite linear) Schoeps style circuit I get a certain result.
Taking the same capsule and enclosure, and applying 3 or 4 volts of RF bias instead, and using that with similarly linear circuitry then the resulting mic seems to sound 'different' . .... But I have no way of measuring that difference. It may even be largely imaginary?

Sadly of course, these kind of subjective microphone descriptions are 'manna from heaven' for some of the 'boutique ' microphone marketing folk.
They have an almost endless supply of new customers who are prepared to believe all sorts of 'magic' claims with regard to their often cloned copies of very expensive microphones.

It could be of course that some people need to believe that - having spent a lot on a 'boutique' DIY microphone kit - the resulting mic has that undefinable 'magical' quality promised by the marketing department!

Take the comparison between a Rode NT1 microphone and a 'legendary' Neumann U47 I posted earlier in this thread ( see here: ) Those 2 mics do sound a little different of course, but whether one is worth £7000 more than the other seems to be up for debate?

Once you get beyond a certain quality in microphone construction, you quickly enter the realms of the 'law of diminishing returns' ...
And that fact is gold dust to the marketing men!

Meanwhile we all tend to have our own 'favourite' mics -- and in the DIY hobby world those can sometimes be the result of an unexpected experimental project!

 

[kingkorg]

This thread used to contain direct comparison between CT12 and stock NT1, including detailed measurement both on and off axis. These weren't received well, and therefore i removed them.

I found out that meaningless descriptive sentences work better, so i quit posting pretty much anything here.

Yes, you can swap a capsule anytime, but this thread was ment to be about something else.

 

[Whoops]

This thread used to contain direct comparison between CT12 and stock NT1, including detailed measurement both on and off axis. These weren't received well, and therefore i removed them.

I found out that meaningless descriptive sentences work better, so i quit posting pretty much anything here.

Yes, you can swap a capsule anytime, but this thread was ment to be about something else.

You know that has far as I’m concerned your measurements and your input are highly rated.

I feel sorry if those were not received well and I just wish that it’s an exception and that you don’t give up sharing your input.

 

[Shaunobi]

Love the measurements! Keep them up!

I’ve been using an NT1 Black lately a lot; keeps winning shootouts. I have some raw vocal files I can post a sample of if folks are interested.

I’ve also got a K2 that I put a nice NOS tube in. It still sounds way harsher to my ears; I think that mic could use a capsule replacement (I think it’s just got a lot more highs in it in general). The NT1, in comparison, has a lot of amazing, clean detail that you can pull out with careful volume automation. Great midrange. Two singers have said, during shootouts, that this mic “sounds like me”.

Not sure I’d swap out the capsule personally. I’d love to do a Tim Campbell build, but I’d probably just do a custom build for that.

 

[AV]

I own a pair of SE Electronics SE-1000.
Some people told me that it was a exact copy of Rode NT1.
I love this mics.

 

[Andresound]

Cant seem to get a reply from Tim. Have 60's C12 that needs his attention

 

[gyraf]

He's massively overworked. You sure it is a capsule problem? For anything electronic or mic-mechanic, there's many other good repair people out there..

/Jakob E.

 

[xeawr]

I own a pair of SE Electronics SE-1000.
Some people told me that it was a exact copy of Rode NT1.
I love this mics.

I doubt that. recordinghacks lists the SE-1000 as rebadged Feilo CR1-86. That makes sense.
And it's very unlikely that the NT1 has the same internals the Feilo

 

[Andresound]

He's massively overworked. You sure it is a capsule problem? For anything electronic or mic-mechanic, there's many other good repair people out there..

/Jakob E.