Should reading The Lab require validated registration?
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Svart
Well-known member
wouldn't this violate the reasoning behind moving here as opposed to staying at RO? Someone didn't like what we do and made moves to get rid of us. We said to hell with it and moved away from the oppression. did it stop us?
I say nay to this vote. No matter what we do to discourage whatever it is that we don't want people building(aside from cloning our clones??) they will do it anyway just like we do after moving from RO . some will be swayed, but eventually we will become more and more like a ProAudioGestapo than a forum for learning. I'm sorry that people make others feel like they have to police ebay and wherever to keep their designs from making money for others, but you have to look at it like this:
1. We clone devices that someone designed to make money. If someone clones our clones, do we have the right to tell them not to do it?
2. We design our own devices and publish them freely on the internet. Someone is going to find it a challenge to clone it or sell it for profit. that is the nature of putting it out in public domain. we do have the right to tell them NOT to make a profit in this case, but do you seriously think that it will stop with a disclaimer, a login or an agreement?
This would become a neverending pissing match if we let it go to our heads. we don't want to become like the government(USA) and start to dictate our rules to people all over the world just because we don't like something that's going to happen no matter what we do.
:guinness:
I say nay to this vote. No matter what we do to discourage whatever it is that we don't want people building(aside from cloning our clones??) they will do it anyway just like we do after moving from RO . some will be swayed, but eventually we will become more and more like a ProAudioGestapo than a forum for learning. I'm sorry that people make others feel like they have to police ebay and wherever to keep their designs from making money for others, but you have to look at it like this:
1. We clone devices that someone designed to make money. If someone clones our clones, do we have the right to tell them not to do it?
2. We design our own devices and publish them freely on the internet. Someone is going to find it a challenge to clone it or sell it for profit. that is the nature of putting it out in public domain. we do have the right to tell them NOT to make a profit in this case, but do you seriously think that it will stop with a disclaimer, a login or an agreement?
This would become a neverending pissing match if we let it go to our heads. we don't want to become like the government(USA) and start to dictate our rules to people all over the world just because we don't like something that's going to happen no matter what we do.
:guinness:
![[silent:arts]](https://cdn.imagearchive.com/groupdiy/data/avatars/m/0/172.jpg?1620371656){kind=avatar}
[silent:arts]
Well-known member
I always read the group DIY at the old place.
I have tried to come in, but registering always went wrong (user problem, technical problem ? I don't know :sad: ).
there was a time the group wanted to buy a fairchild manual at ebay, I mailed scans of mine to a group memeber because I was not able to post. he posted it for me, nobofy had to buy it.
the group moved to a new place, I was able to get a registered member. I have been glad beeing in, posting some stuff, giving the group something back for all I can learn here.
just my storry with groupDIY and the lab
I have tried to come in, but registering always went wrong (user problem, technical problem ? I don't know :sad: ).
there was a time the group wanted to buy a fairchild manual at ebay, I mailed scans of mine to a group memeber because I was not able to post. he posted it for me, nobofy had to buy it.
the group moved to a new place, I was able to get a registered member. I have been glad beeing in, posting some stuff, giving the group something back for all I can learn here.
just my storry with groupDIY and the lab
G
Guest
Guest
I really hate being an "undecided voter" here, but I want to contemplate the issue a bit more.
If registration is required, i.e. a closed forum, I am afraid it will stiffle things, stagnate things and we may wither with little "fresh air" once in awhile.
On the other hand, I hate to see peoples work taken without just compensation, or even consultation. Some sort of protection should be given those who develop these wonderful original ideas, or improve on other's work as so many here do. I'm just not sure yet what it should be.
I want to make sure I fully consider as many of the ramifications of such a move, and what potential benefit could be derived before I cast my vote. For me, that means reading more of your thoughts and input.
If registration is required, i.e. a closed forum, I am afraid it will stiffle things, stagnate things and we may wither with little "fresh air" once in awhile.
On the other hand, I hate to see peoples work taken without just compensation, or even consultation. Some sort of protection should be given those who develop these wonderful original ideas, or improve on other's work as so many here do. I'm just not sure yet what it should be.
I want to make sure I fully consider as many of the ramifications of such a move, and what potential benefit could be derived before I cast my vote. For me, that means reading more of your thoughts and input.
owel
Well-known member
Are we overreacting here?
I voted No.
If somebody wants to steal something, they don't even have to go to the LAB forum to get the circuit, PCB layout, PDF, gerber files, etc. The complete project is available for download at the other website.
If we're going to make this forum for registered users only, then I guess those 3rd party websites will have to be password protected too.... otherwise, why have a registration-required forum if the other websites can be Googled. You know what I mean?
Making this forum for registered users only doesn't make sense if the projects can be downloaded at other websites.
So I don't see the logic in this action.
I voted No.
If somebody wants to steal something, they don't even have to go to the LAB forum to get the circuit, PCB layout, PDF, gerber files, etc. The complete project is available for download at the other website.
If we're going to make this forum for registered users only, then I guess those 3rd party websites will have to be password protected too.... otherwise, why have a registration-required forum if the other websites can be Googled. You know what I mean?
Making this forum for registered users only doesn't make sense if the projects can be downloaded at other websites.
So I don't see the logic in this action.
[quote author="Svart"]No matter what we do to discourage whatever it is that we don't want people building (aside from cloning our clones??) they will do it anyway just like we do after moving from RO.[/quote]
True. But the problem is not with "cloning our clones", the problem is with trying to profit from it.
[quote author="Svart"]If someone clones our clones, do we have the right to tell them not to do it?[/quote]
No, we don't. But again, this is not the issue. The issue is in trying to profit from selling someone else's design.
[quote author="Svart"]we do have the right to tell them NOT to make a profit in this case, but do you seriously think that it will stop with a disclaimer, a login or an agreement?[/quote]
Of course not. But with a login, we at least get peoples IP's logged, which would make it easier for the rightful copyright owner to track the scumbag down and take legal action, should he/she decide to do so.
I have yet to see a convinving argument against it, so... What's the big deal with making the forum registered-only? I mean, everybody chiming in is registered already, and it's not like nobody else would be able to join or anything, and it's still going to be free... The point of requiring registration is not to curb cloning or design-stealing, but to keep some kind of a record of who's here in case somebody tries to trample over somebody else's rights. The alternative could very well be less sharing, which would hurt the comunity tremendously in the end.
Peace,
Al.
True. But the problem is not with "cloning our clones", the problem is with trying to profit from it.
[quote author="Svart"]If someone clones our clones, do we have the right to tell them not to do it?[/quote]
No, we don't. But again, this is not the issue. The issue is in trying to profit from selling someone else's design.
[quote author="Svart"]we do have the right to tell them NOT to make a profit in this case, but do you seriously think that it will stop with a disclaimer, a login or an agreement?[/quote]
Of course not. But with a login, we at least get peoples IP's logged, which would make it easier for the rightful copyright owner to track the scumbag down and take legal action, should he/she decide to do so.
I have yet to see a convinving argument against it, so... What's the big deal with making the forum registered-only? I mean, everybody chiming in is registered already, and it's not like nobody else would be able to join or anything, and it's still going to be free... The point of requiring registration is not to curb cloning or design-stealing, but to keep some kind of a record of who's here in case somebody tries to trample over somebody else's rights. The alternative could very well be less sharing, which would hurt the comunity tremendously in the end.
Peace,
Al.
Peter Simonsen
Well-known member
[quote author="owel"]Are we overreacting here?
I voted No.
.[/quote]
Yes I belive "we" are highly overreacting..at least somebody around here are !!!
Kind regards
Peter
I voted No.
.[/quote]
Yes I belive "we" are highly overreacting..at least somebody around here are !!!
Kind regards
Peter
Someone please explain to me how registering for this forum will deter someone from profiting if they choose so. As stated, they can download the info at other sites. If they want 'in' bad enough, they'll just register! where's the security? What kind of screening process would be involved to prevent internet @$$holes from registering? Big deal, we find out they sold some clones and then we kick them out. The damage is done already, no? That doesn't prevent someone from registering again wtih a different name/alias, e-mail address, etc. I'm missing the logic here.
Peter Simonsen
Well-known member
[quote author="JPrisus"]Someone please explain to me how registering for this forum will deter someone from profiting if they choose so. As stated, they can download the info at other sites. If they want 'in' bad enough, they'll just register! where's the security? What kind of screening process would be involved to prevent internet @$$holes from registering? Big deal, we find out they sold some clones and then we kick them out. The damage is done already, no? That doesn't prevent someone from registering again wtih a different name/alias, e-mail address, etc. I'm missing the logic here.[/quote]
I´ll Second all of the above..very well said JPrisus ;-) exsactly my feelings as well, and I´d like to know as well..how on earth this could be done..???
Kind regards
Peter
I´ll Second all of the above..very well said JPrisus ;-) exsactly my feelings as well, and I´d like to know as well..how on earth this could be done..???
Kind regards
Peter
Peter Simonsen
Well-known member
[quote author="alk509"]
True. But the problem is not with "cloning our clones", the problem is with trying to profit from it.
Peace,
Al.[/quote]
Only problem with that would be that, I for one find it very hard not to see that anyone who´s using a clone in their work will profit from it. You seem to "see" profit ONLY as in selling the clone..that in my world is a very "funny" way of looking at the term "profit", but hey..maybe it makes it eazy to "clone" in good will I guess !!! ;-)
Kind regards
Peter
True. But the problem is not with "cloning our clones", the problem is with trying to profit from it.
Peace,
Al.[/quote]
Only problem with that would be that, I for one find it very hard not to see that anyone who´s using a clone in their work will profit from it. You seem to "see" profit ONLY as in selling the clone..that in my world is a very "funny" way of looking at the term "profit", but hey..maybe it makes it eazy to "clone" in good will I guess !!! ;-)
Kind regards
Peter
I don't think that mandatory registration is the right solution here. Both because it - as mentioned - does not solve the primary problem with commercial hijacking of our projects, but also because it will make this community appear more "closed" and potentially scare people away. Specially newbie's and people that are not sure if they really want to get into DIY.
It is in our best interest to have as many people as possible learning, building, and contributing to the GroupDIY. Let's try not to exclude anyone that may have even the remotest interest in our quest.
Jakob E.
It is in our best interest to have as many people as possible learning, building, and contributing to the GroupDIY. Let's try not to exclude anyone that may have even the remotest interest in our quest.
Jakob E.
Kev
Well-known member
Group DIY may not be my baby anymore but I'd like to take the opportunity to remind people of the original Group DIY mission statement:
I think the group in Group DIY might just be the most important factor. If the door is open I'll continue to join in.
I'm all for a closed forum but I think it should be start from scratch as a secret forum.
Perhaps no-one has chosen to tell you about the existing secret forum ... :wink:
any forum that would have me as a member ... etc ... etc ... :green:
I think the group in Group DIY might just be the most important factor. If the door is open I'll continue to join in.
I'm all for a closed forum but I think it should be start from scratch as a secret forum.
Perhaps no-one has chosen to tell you about the existing secret forum ... :wink:
any forum that would have me as a member ... etc ... etc ... :green:
Strange, but the more i read this the more i agree with all of you??!
Me too, came to the previous place by a search and the site of Kev etc, etc...
My aim is to learn what has been fascinating me since a longtime and you people have been already a tremendous help in achieving something here. I also profit from the fact that i'm building gear what i use daily in my COMMERCIAL studios btw!
The G9 at Evilbaythread more or less "whiplashed" me in defense to help and protect people like Jakob and others, who could be serious damaged (moneywise and bizzprofile) by rippers or ignorant people just in for a quick buck here and there. There will always be people like this, howmany dvd's and cd get ripped these days anyway? AND sold for real money!? This is to simple to compare too as you practically have nothing to learn to rip cd's, but you do have to have the knowledge to learn at least some basics electronics-stuff etc.
Closing the doors would mean locking out people as myself in a way, so maybe it's not the best option in terms of keeping it real and alive (DIY!)
Just my other 0,02 euro...
Peace brothas and sistas,
Tony
Me too, came to the previous place by a search and the site of Kev etc, etc...
My aim is to learn what has been fascinating me since a longtime and you people have been already a tremendous help in achieving something here. I also profit from the fact that i'm building gear what i use daily in my COMMERCIAL studios btw!
The G9 at Evilbaythread more or less "whiplashed" me in defense to help and protect people like Jakob and others, who could be serious damaged (moneywise and bizzprofile) by rippers or ignorant people just in for a quick buck here and there. There will always be people like this, howmany dvd's and cd get ripped these days anyway? AND sold for real money!? This is to simple to compare too as you practically have nothing to learn to rip cd's, but you do have to have the knowledge to learn at least some basics electronics-stuff etc.
Closing the doors would mean locking out people as myself in a way, so maybe it's not the best option in terms of keeping it real and alive (DIY!)
Just my other 0,02 euro...
Peace brothas and sistas,
Tony
VacuumVoodoo
Well-known member
How about requesting that people take a minute to properly fill the profile form when subscribing to the forum ? As it is now we have a large number of people using just their nicks with empty profiles. More often than not we answer questions and provide specific info and problem solutions to people we know absolutely nothing about. I'm not insinuating that all the anonymous lurkers have mischievious intentions but i for one like to know who the PERSON i'm dealing with is.
My "drei groschen"
My "drei groschen"
Steve Jones
Well-known member
Because this subject has only just come up, I think it is way too early to vote on it. I would prefer to see a vote after a month or 2 of everyone having time to sort out their thoughts on the matter and to then see how they feel, because it would for better of worse be a radical course change to the entire vibe of the Lab.
Steve Jones
Well-known member
[quote author="VacuumVoodoo"]How about requesting that people take a minute to properly fill the profile form when subscribing to the forum ? As it is now we have a large number of people using just their nicks with empty profiles. More often than not we answer questions and provide specific info and problem solutions to people we know absolutely nothing about. I'm not insinuating that all the anonymous lurkers have mischievious intentions but i for one like to know who the PERSON i'm dealing with is.
My "drei groschen"[/quote]
Alex has suggested a really good point I think...
My "drei groschen"[/quote]
Alex has suggested a really good point I think...
