Soliloqueen's k87(k67) and k47 capsules

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Best wishes for fast recovery... let me know when you are available to see how we're gonna plan this (no real hurry)
thank you
 
@soliloqueen, I hope you're on the mend! Just curious about the latest ETA on the K87s. I know there are a lot of moving parts, so no pressure - just trying to get an ETA for a client of mine. Thanks!
We completed a pretty sizable batch with the new method for a client and everything was perfect. Bang on bass response and perfect tension. Then did a set of additional samples to verify everything would be fine for retail production and everything was back to being wrong. Turned out that the person who did assembly on the samples might have grabbed jigs from the flat k47's pile (or the person who did the tuning put the flat k47 jigs on the wrong pile). Now verifying that this is what happened, more samples, and then back to retail production. I'm hoping they're about a month out but so many false starts
 
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Here is a video of the immense Chucho Valdez at Jazz in Marciac, U47 fet clone with Moby's transformer and Arienne's flat47 on piano (visible at some passages in the video). Group DIY on stage !

Nice recording ..... A great jazz pianist -- a really good piano (and in tune!) - one of Ari's flat 47s...... Who could ask for more?! :)
 
Here is a video of the immense Chucho Valdez at Jazz in Marciac, U47 fet clone with Moby's transformer and Arienne's flat47 on piano (visible at some passages in the video). Group DIY on stage !

That sounds great. Piano’s so difficult to record. The player makes more difference the instrument, but if the player and the instrument are great, it can still be a challenge! Nice work. I have a spare flat47 and 47fet pcb set. Maybe I will try it in my 47fet after hearing this!
 
We completed a pretty sizable batch with the new method for a client and everything was perfect. Bang on bass response and perfect tension. Then did a set of additional samples to verify everything would be fine for retail production and everything was back to being wrong. Turned out that the person who did assembly on the samples might have grabbed jigs from the flat k47's pile (or the person who did the tuning put the flat k47 jigs on the wrong pile). Now verifying that this is what happened, more samples, and then back to retail production. I'm hoping they're about a month out but so many false starts
Your dedication and attention to detail is amazing! And I wish you a speedy recovery, of course.
 
Piano’s so difficult to record.

I don't agree, if what's coming out of the Piano and reaches your ears sounds good then it's pretty easy to record.
Not rocket science recording a good or excellent sound out of it

The player makes more difference the instrument, but if the player and the instrument are great, it can still be a challenge!

I also don't agree with both statements.
A great player with a bad sounding Piano will result in good music with a terrible sound out of it, and in that situation, in my long experience, there's nothing you can in terms of recording technics to make it sound good.
A good example is "Keith Jarrett - The Koln Concert" album, where the Pianist is outstanding and the Piano was awful,
it resulted in really good music and performance but the Piano sound in that record is crap. This record is remembered because of the performance and not because of the quality of recorded Piano sound.
The Piano is a really complex instrument, with complex mechanics, harmonics and tunning. You are not touching the strings with your fingers, you are activating hammers, so a good Pianist will not be able to make a bad piano sound suddenly good.

Then if the Player and the Instrument are both really good, or excellent, then there's no challenge whatsoever recording it,
it's pretty simple and even recording lesson 101 will achieve great results.
The challenge that is see in this scenario is screwing up, that would be pretty hard for a professional recording engineer.
 
I know we can discuss technique and personal experiences all day long, but I will agree with @EarthTone the piano can be difficult. It's not always so, but it can be. I've been recording classical/jazz music for 53 years, played by some wonderful, internationally renown musicians. I have seen players not live up to the instrument, the instrument not live up to the player and have heard a good piano become magical in the right hands. I've used a wide variety of techniques over the years and have learned getting a good piano sound is pretty straightforward. Getting a great sound, with the correct amount of hall, with the proper sonic perspective, with good detail and proper harmonic structure can be a challenge. Every instrument has its own personality and has to be approached with that in mind, as well as how it fits into the whole sonic picture.

It is obviously not impossible to make a great piano recording, but it is simplistic in my view to say it is Recording 101. It is a complex instrument and as such, like the pipe organ, the reason the approaches are so vast is because no one technique satisfies. If it did, that would be Recording 101.
 
Finally got my cardioid K47 capsules after some hassle with DHL. Installed one in a B1 body with a KM84 type of circuit. Tested it with my own voice and it sounds so unbelievably good I can't stop smiling 🤗 The mic had an ali K47 in it which was peaky in the middle and lacked bottom end as well as air. Now the mic sounds absolutely gorgeous, thank you @soliloqueen !

(I have also a beesneez K7, a blue line Thiersch and a red line Thiersch I have poked a hole on the other diaphragm which made it quite dark. Might buid a few more of those B1-KM84's and do a shootout some day when I have time.)
 
I don't agree, if what's coming out of the Piano and reaches your ears sounds good then it's pretty easy to record.
Not rocket science recording a good or excellent sound out of it

Rookie question: I am curious - not being critical - I don't follow you on this. With some instruments, my hears something very different from what microphones capture - perhaps mainly because my ears and the microphones are not in the same place. My guitar sounds different to me when I am playing it, because my ears are an the side above the upper bout. It sounds very different when another player plays it, as I my ears are a different distance away facing the sound board/top. There is plenty of good faith debate in how to mic an acoustic guitar; so, it seems logical to assume there is plenty of debate on dhow to mic a piano, which seems, to me, to present even more variation in microphone placement multiplied by the number of different types of microphone and by the sheer size of the instrument with more mic placement options than with many other instruments.

Today, however, I am considering mic placement more than other factors, and it seems results from different microphone placement may be vastly different, respectively, especially considering the microphones are rarely where anybody put his ears. It may sound good in my head (i.e., to my ears) ... but I expect a very different result from microphones placed somewhere else.

Given the size of the instrument and the number of places one might locate one or more microphones, it seems more complicated than Mr. Whoops suggests. (And, while I truly respect his take on such matters, I am not following this particular point as one's ears are rarely where the microphones are, at least with respect to pianos ... um... I think - remember this is more of a question than a proposition!)

Respectfully submitted, James
 
there is plenty of debate on dhow to mic a piano, which seems, to me, to present even more variation in microphone placement multiplied by the number of different types of microphone and by the sheer size of the instrument with more mic placement options than with many other instruments.
Maybe drums ? And what number of parameters do you have to tweak when, like on this stage you have a grand but also a generous set of percussions, brass section, drums and electric bass ? Of course in the meantime you have to manage monitors bleeding and various candys related to PA systems ... i do think that a bit of experience is required.
 
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I don't agree, if what's coming out of the Piano and reaches your ears sounds good then it's pretty easy to record.
Not rocket science recording a good or excellent sound out of it


Then if the Player and the Instrument are both really good, or excellent, then there's no challenge whatsoever recording it,
it's pretty simple and even recording lesson 101 will achieve great results.
The challenge that is see in this scenario is screwing up, that would be pretty hard for a professional recording engineer.
This whole thing is quite massively off topic, but I find this opinion comes across just a little high and mighty.

Certainly if you have a good player playing solo, on a good instrument, in a good room, the job is drastically easier and the options become many. But in a live-sound situation, you may have one, two, or even three of those criteria being covered, but as Garp expressed (and was shown in the video), the amount of other instruments - and the volume of spill from horns and drums on the stage, as well as monitors bleeding into the mics creates a pretty huge challenge.
Some people might impulsively manage that situation well, but really, it's something that I think requires a lot of experience.

As for the Kölln Concert, I know that the story is there about the poorly tuned instrument, but I think we're still talking about a Steinway D - not exactly a piece of shit. Now, the reality that the whole recording was done with two U-67s and a 2-track machine (and then mastered with the addition of an EMT-140) probably drastically limited the total quality. I really enjoy many of the early ECM records, especially Martin Wieland's work, but I really don't think this is his best, even if it's his best-selling.
For me, in today's era of many mics on many tracks, it seems like an incredibly strange decision to have not brought an 8 track 1" machine along to get a few extra mics up and actually capture the sound of the piano in the hall. I would think that a couple of omnis in the room wouldn't have gone astray in there.

edit: I just read that apparently it was a Bösendorfer Baby Grand, so obviously not the same caliber of instrument. But I stand by the idea that having more mics could have potentially captured a larger (at least roomier) sound, but obviously without the bottom end of an Imperial. I played one once, and hot diggidy damn, that thing was insanely loud!
 
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Finally got my cardioid K47 capsules after some hassle with DHL. Installed one in a B1 body with a KM84 type of circuit. Tested it with my own voice and it sounds so unbelievably good I can't stop smiling 🤗 The mic had an ali K47 in it which was peaky in the middle and lacked bottom end as well as air. Now the mic sounds absolutely gorgeous, thank you @soliloqueen !

(I have also a beesneez K7, a blue line Thiersch and a red line Thiersch I have poked a hole on the other diaphragm which made it quite dark. Might buid a few more of those B1-KM84's and do a shootout some day when I have time.)
I'd love to know how the Arienne K47 sounds in comparison to the K7 and the Thiersch's.
 

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